Should we guarantee the rights of eu citzens to remain unilaterally

[ReallyTired]

I think we should. They came here with the belief that they could live here.

I suppose the argument is that Spain and France may not show compassion to British citizens who have emigrated. Certainly Spain may well be tempted to use it as leverage to gain sovernity of Gibraltar. I think the chances of the French being vindictive is less.

If Scotland leaves the uk and joins the EU could there be an arrangement where ex pats become Scottish citizens? (Even if they are 100% English or Welsh) in the event of British citizens being sent back?

Course they wouldn't, the only thing they care about is the immigrants, any reason to critique, and on anecdote too.

I have a British family at the end of my street, big flat, no one works, kids are mental and damage local property. That's fine though, they're indigenous. Oh and this is a HA flat too, no way they could ever afford to live there unless they had so many children and had it on benefits.

Blah, blah, blah.

The data proves immigrants are less likely to claim benefits and are get less net spend out of the total from WTCs than they there are immigrant families.

No matter, lets just be prejudiced eh?

It's presumably easier than actually bothering to think.

Woodhill / Aerfen

Given that I grew up in Germany, I had way more exposure to Polish people over the course of my life. Generally speaking, the Polish people I have met are very hard working.

Meanwhile, you have a lot of British unemployed people who breed like rabbits. There have been threads on MN where people think about child three or four, but do not know whether they can afford them.

Cue MN people telling them to go ahead regardless.. because otherwise they would "regret it forever". Shockingly, someone talked about a friend - a single mom - who had four kids or something and was living in a private house paid for by the state. Apparently, the mother wanted even more kids. Like she was addicted!!

Fifteen years ago, I also noticed how many teenage pregnancies there were here in the UK! When I was told that many have kids young because it was a way to get council housing, I just despaired!!!

Would you guys be annoyed about these people, too?!? These are Brits who have never paid into the system!!!

"My relative thought Poland or Romania but not certain. Yes one particular group you mention Aerfen of non EU origin seem particularly ineffective and Inactive."

Woodhill

Neither your relative or the pharmacist really know anything about the pregnant lady. How do they know that she hasn't worked in the UK or has a DH who works and pays taxes here? Who knows, maybe she even an indigenous British DH making her even more worthy to claim free medicine for herself and her DCs.

Making assumptions and generalisations about about an entire race or group of people based on what you've seen once in a pharmacy is dangerous and unjust. There is nothing to suggest that this lady is purely here for free prescriptions. You do not know the facts. The fact that her DS behaved badly does not support any theory that she is a fast breeder or a parasite, all it shows bad parenting and perhaps a mum having a hard time.

British people who are working on contract in Dubai, Singapore and such like so they are not a burden on those countries resources.

Are you saying they don't need roads or police or infrastructures?

Who are they paid by? Ultimately those countries, when they do business with those companies.

Dubai and other such countries also have a large poor immigrant popularion in dire conditions that support those upmarket immigrants and the rich locals.
Both groups end up exploiting the poor in neighbouring countries.
At least they recognise they need unskilled labourers, that the UK seems to forget they need too, with most citizens aiming for university and skilled jobs, or with a small group preferring living on benefits.

Are you saying they don't need roads or police or infrastructures?

No I am not going that far but I am aying thhey do not get free health treatment, education for their kids or social housing, let alone welfare benefits and legal aid! Nor are they given any right to citizenship no matter how long they work there. The same applies to the lower tier of unskilled workers. Foreigners in Dubai are there purely for the benefit of the indigenous. This is fair enough. Even the lower tier workers gain because they are still better off than they would be in their own homelands.

Foreigners in Dubai are there purely for the benefit of the indigenous.
Are they?
What about the huge salaries? They have to come from somewhere. Are they not equivalent to free healthcare (if there was) or education?
And thinking that poorer immigrants in crap conditions is ok because they may not be starving as in their country of origin, well...

"Given that I grew up in Germany, I had way more exposure to Polish people over the course of my life. Generally speaking, the Polish people I have met are very hard working"

We've had Polish people here for YEARS Snowy "British Poles" descendants of those who came after WW2. I had one in my class at school, and knew many at university and worked with a few.I even have a British Polish relative (through marriage).

And your racist generalisation about Poles is meaningless, purely anecdotal! Has it not crossed your mind that Poles in Germany probably both feel under pressure to be better than Germans knowing they will be criticised by racist Germans if theyre not? Also because the wages they get in Germany seem massive compared to those in Poland they are happy and incentivised. They havent got some kind of 'hard work' gene or even an 'ethic' of hard work, its their different circumstances that motivates them.

Aerfen

Nobody could know anything about that woman other than that she was pregnant and had children. Do they even knew they were hers? Could she be working as a child minder?

Of course some people are undeserving. So are some citizens.
Overall, though, it seems that the undeserving are very few.
And for those in the lowest pays taking benefits, they are doing jobs that for the most part few citizens want and the problem is not that they're getting free stuff, it's the low pay.

So now people are passport hungers and breeding like rabbits?

You really are contemptible aren't you, certainly no great representative of the "indigenous" people of this country.

Nationalism and racism doesn't equate to patriotism.

Oh and we had the "benefits" conversation earlier, you were unable to counter the points put to you.

Immigrants are largely beneficial to the UK and are under represented on the benefits bills.

Children shouldn't be educated if born to the "wrong sort" of mother
Can MN rename this thread eugenics supporters anonomous please?

So now people are passport hungers and breeding like rabbits?

Are you saying
a) There are no passport hunters?
b) Nobody breeds irresponsibly?

But you know nothing about this person except for a description given here and are willing to make damming sweeping generalisations about her and many others.

Also if she was EU she wouldn't need a passport would she?

The expression breeding like rabbits is awful.
That is the problem.

And in the UK breeding is a good thing. In most of Europe it is. Except that some countries recognise that they need children, whereas the UK has a growing population and treats children like something almost purely to the benefit of the parents and not the entire population.

FAH
"Making assumptions and generalisations about about an entire race or group of people based on what you've seen once in a pharmacy is dangerous and unjust."

Woodhills didnt base her generalisation on just one woman, she cited that woman as an example of a particular fast breeding group.

If you dont approve of generalisations based on anecdote then youd better attack Snowy for her racist generalisation about Poles, based on her experience of migrant worker Poles in Germany (limited since she appears to have lived in Britain most of her adult life).

No she used an anecdote about one woman to make sweeping generalisations about an entire group of people and to do so in a damming way, which is what the objection is.

You then took this further and used derogatory language to describe the same woman and groups of people.

Yet as proved earlier, those from the EU that are on any kind of benefit are a far smaller group of the population than British nationals, and are under represented.

she cited that woman as an example of a particular fast breeding group.

It's different to generalise from on person than to mention a large group of people someone knows

BTW, can we use Mick Jagger as an example of a fast (ok, high) breeding group?

Even the use of breeding, in relation to human groups, as an expression is awful, as it dehumanises people.

Aerfen, nice selection and omission of key points.
Also, do you ofen say in relation to your relatives how their breeding performance is, or do you reserve that expression to those you have contempt for?

Y'know what SLOWS reproductive rates? Go on, its an easy question - OH YEAH it's EDUCATION, but you don't want immigrants children educated??

Besides, in Britain, the BRITISH elderly are a massively expanding group number wise due to advances in elderly disease prevention and care, and they need young people to help look after them in hospitals, community, homes etc

The problem with the expression is that it is derogatory, like much of the other language you've chosen to describe immigrants. You're being very disingenuous and pretending not to recognise this. Much language is not neutral, surely as a native speaker you would know this?

b) Nobody breeds irresponsibly?
nobody is born irresponsibly, and no child should be denied healthcare or education just because their parents are deemed undesirable