Should we guarantee the rights of eu citzens to remain unilaterally

[ReallyTired]

I think we should. They came here with the belief that they could live here.

I suppose the argument is that Spain and France may not show compassion to British citizens who have emigrated. Certainly Spain may well be tempted to use it as leverage to gain sovernity of Gibraltar. I think the chances of the French being vindictive is less.

If Scotland leaves the uk and joins the EU could there be an arrangement where ex pats become Scottish citizens? (Even if they are 100% English or Welsh) in the event of British citizens being sent back?

No I wasn't mocking a black inner city accent, I was mocking you dear and your relentless confirmation bias.

I didn't presume the phone in caller was lying, I was implying that you had taken phone in caller as being the truth, whilst dismissing a whole host of academic research in a poor way.

Oh and that was a rather pathetic attempt to smear some academic organisations, you really think they'd tamper with finding because of some hidden agenda?

Professor Dustmann smeared himself with a "finding" so ridiculous it was very obvious to me and many others at the time that the figure was a serious underestimate. The social sciences are very flaky a with a great deal of leverage acceptable and the researchers are invariably agenda driven. Those drawn to research the field of immigration are almost always those wishing to promote it, often immigrants themselves, such as Dustmann. Its like putting the fox in charge of the henhouse!

Aerfen

I don't know about you, but sometimes, I go to a Korean Nail Bar, because they've been trained in a specific way that I like and can do things another nail bar might not. Similarly, I go to a Japanese Hair Salon (all Japanese), because of the relaxing atmosphere (they don't talk loudly, everything is calm) and the hi-tech stuff they use.

No I wasn't mocking a black inner city accent, I was mocking you dear and your relentless confirmation bias

Yes of course you were trying to do so, but what a foolish and inappropriate way! Your relentless and increasingly silly ad homs are unimpressive and underline your inability to discuss the issues like an adult.

"Similarly, I go to a Japanese Hair Salon (all Japanese), because of the relaxing atmosphere (they don't talk loudly, everything is calm) and the hi-tech stuff they use"
I have heard they are extremely good! None in my town!
I can believe the same is true of Korean nail bars.

HOWEVER, IMO the survival of the British people (and all the other ethnic groups of Europe, Germans included) is more important than the availability of such minor 'benefits' as Japanese hairdressing salons.

Aerfen

But don't you think the British should find a way to differentiate themselves positively instead?!? Basically, create a product/service that is second to none, just like the Korean nail bar and the Japanese hair salon do?!?

P.S.: I travel to London just for those!

There are thousands of skin products on the market, for example. But as I can afford it, I do pay for some stupidly expensive ones produced either in the UK or the US simply because they're great. Those companies are flourishing, by the way, as they sell their products worldwide to those who can afford the steep prices. If it's good, there will always be people buying it.

The way forward is to be better. Not to stop other people from selling us their products/services that are better. Mankind evolved by constantly improving - not by stopping progress/

We do need a bit of Darwinism. Otherwise, we'll just end up a nation full of idiocracy. Unless we are already there, of course.

Snowbells - I think Aerfen illustrates that we already are

I hope that that fear is wrong.

I agree with all of the above: Brits need to be innovative and use competition to create a thriving market in hair care, nails, whatever.

But... That shouldn't mean that niche sectors rely solely on one or two countries for their staff. It's ludicrous to have a shortage of curry chefs three generations after the big wave of immigration from the Infian sub-continent. And if there was a concerted effort by all relevant agencies (trading standards, immigration, fair pay people, environmental health) to crack down on the pay and living / working conditions in many nail bars, restaurants etc, they wouldn't be able to undercut local wages and there would naturally be reduced illegal immigration. (I know this is easier to say than do)

But don't you think the British should find a way to differentiate themselves positively instead?!? Basically, create a product/service that is second to none, just like the Korean nail bar and the Japanese hair salon do?!?
Our financial and legal services sector is!

But this is sidetracking. Much as the privileged few enjoy such luxuries as trips to London to go to the Japanese hairdresser and everyone enjoys the varieties of restaurants and street food etc, these small ;'benefits' of immigration do not outweigh the harm caused by globalisation. Its a paradox that the more 'diversity' within a country, the less between them.
Is it not better to experience a Japanese hairdresser only if you visit Japan?

Moderation in all things Snowy. While I am not suggesting everyone remain imprisoned in their homelands to conserve the diversity of ethnic groups, nor should we be encouraging their destruction as the EU is both through excessive internal migration, and importation of migrants from outside.

Our cultures and languages are being destroyed. English of course will dominate, but even large languages like German will become endangered, as the ageing ethnic German population is replaced by faster breeding migrants who care nothing for it, and certainly 'small' languages such as Swedish and Dutch will be under threat in a generation or two. Once everyone in a country is bilingual then there is no longer a great need to learn that language. How many bother to learn Dutch now?

You think you are discussing this like an adult?

You are presented with clear and impartial data yet dismiss it, when you choose to use information it is highly selective and one which you use to attempt to back up a deeply flawed opinion. Your use of 600,000 gross migration and not the net migration shows this. Then you attempt to discredit an organisation cause "its stuffed full of foreigners" and one academic made a prediction that was later to proved to be incorrect, no matter that the information you were seeking to discredit was from records of events that have already past, which is an entirely different matter.

Further your attempts to make the case for "the survival" of the British people from immigration which makes up 14% of the entire population, and an attempt to present the British as some kind of oppressed indigenous population are frankly laughable.

There is no attempt at adult conversation from you at all.

"Our cultures and languages are being destroyed."

Hyperbole and untrue.

prettybird I am trying to see a glimmer of hope that we aren't there yet... but it's sort fading away as time passes.

"How many bother to learn Dutch now?"

Ooh, I know this! Pick me! Is it Dutch people?

Aerfen

I think you're really becoming a bit melodramatic here. As Smallfox says, the UK does not have that many immigrants.

Elsewhere, languages will live on. German will continue to exist, because you can't go through school without learning it. Same with Danish, Swedish, Dutch, etc. In most countries, the native language is taught at school. There are many Greeks and Turks in Germany, and most of them speak German just as well as any other blond, blue-eyed German.

I very much doubt England is under threat here. Languages have evolved through time. Hence, they say that American English is closer to Chaucer's English, while the French believe that Canadian French is too French! Culture has evolved over time, too!

You can't freeze the world and keep us in the 17th century forever... why would you even want that!?

I am.sick of this wishy washy shit. If you don't have a British passport, you need to apply for residency. Sorry for stating the obvious

If you can't even afford to educate your children privately, chances are that you're not much use to the UK.

Charming. Quite charming.

angelo my very British husband who has never lived anywhere else and is an employer would not qualify for a permanant resident card here if he had happened to be an EU citizen

It doesn't actually matter how much you earn when it comes to PR, that is not one of the criteria

sorry not sorry to state the obvious and easily found information which is readily available on the gov website!

Its not going to happen! They will get right to remain and listen I'l tell you a secret, immigration will continue at the same level.

I doubt anyone with your values is much use to anyone except the EDL.

Oh and I don't take affording or having a private education as any marker of success. All of those running the leave and remain campaigns had private educations and look what a mess they've left.

If you can't even afford to educate your children privately, chances are that you're not much use to the UK.

That's the best one I've heard yet

Donald Trump hasn't even come out with some of this stuff. Next thing you'll be suggesting we build a wall.

angelos02 = obviously a troll.

If he had posted that private school comment anywhere else on MN, he'd be lynched!!!

No troll here. Just that if you are so needed by the UK, the least you can do is not leech off our education system.

So, a nurse who has not cost this country a penny to educate or train.. shouldn't come here if of childbearing age because a nurses salary is usually enough to privately educate your kids

Bloody scrounging nurses, coming here, leeching off us… teachers too

What we REALLY need, is more greedy city types on high salaries, now they really contribute to our society

adulting, if you & your partner can afford to stay under my very reasonable criteria, happy days. If not, toodles