Should we guarantee the rights of eu citzens to remain unilaterally

[ReallyTired]

I think we should. They came here with the belief that they could live here.

I suppose the argument is that Spain and France may not show compassion to British citizens who have emigrated. Certainly Spain may well be tempted to use it as leverage to gain sovernity of Gibraltar. I think the chances of the French being vindictive is less.

If Scotland leaves the uk and joins the EU could there be an arrangement where ex pats become Scottish citizens? (Even if they are 100% English or Welsh) in the event of British citizens being sent back?

• suits your agenda

I think there might be some remainers who voted that way, but a very small minority.

Also, to discuss migration as losing skilled people and gaining unskilled is totally wrong.

You could however class a big part of it as losing the economically inactive and gaining the economically active.

high proportion of emigration is that of highly skilled people?

If that really is the case (and if we consider this to be an unfortunate trade-off) do we think the situation will be improved by, um, recent developments?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36719923

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/brexit-britain-latest-news-academics-threaten-to-quit-brain-drain-over-racist-xenophobic-eu-a7133316.html

And let's not forget that a number of the highly-skilled people leaving the country are non-EU immigrants who do not make the new arbitrary £35k income cut-off. Like teachers. Because we have plenty of those kicking around! Oh, and that plan was dreamt up by our wonderful new PM.

JolieColombe I mentioned the 35k threshold on another thread. Not sure many Leave voters actually knew about it!

a Polish plumber ten barristas from failing EU states

Most polish people stay in education to masters level, that's "expected" in Poland.

They might work in low paid jobs here while they find their feed and brush up their English, that doesn't make them low educated or unskilled.

If I moved to france having only my crappy school french, I would not use my degree/profession straight away. I'ld work somewhere non front line first until my french was good enough to work in my profession. I'ld do something like kitchen work or cleaning meanwhile.

Perhaps we need to prioritise our own degree students first who have probably have a mountain of debt after taking out a student loan in the job market. They need a chance.

I don't agree.

Lets be honest if one of our graduates is out competed for a job by someone with qualifications from a foreign university ( which may be harder for an employer to understand the quality of ) and English as a second language, with no contacts, references in another language etc. They aren't trying hard enough and its a good lesson.

Perhaps we need to prioritise our own degree students first who have probably have a mountain of debt after taking out a student loan in the job market. They need a chance.

And that chance was being in the EU. My friends who are academics are now facing potentially career ending changes to sponsorship due to Brexit.
It has happened already, this is not speculation, it's already happening o our academics and researchers… so…
move abroad or change careers is what "our" high level graduates in academia/research are now facing thanks to Brexit

We are already seeing a "Brain drain" with our British trained doctors. This year the numbers applying for grad rotations abroad has shot up with fewer than ever before staying to work in the NHS, and more and more are leaving for abroad every week.

We'll lose the best of us!

Particularly when boarders are stricter and only the "best" can move.

We won't be sitting her with all of our British educated best and brightest, they'll be gone somewhere more progressive and collaborative. It's already happening.

How old are your dc small?

Got a graduate, one in Uni, one finished GCSEs.

Funnily enough despite living in an area with high amounts of immigration all have managed to get jobs. :)

Woodhill

For companies to be able to compete globally (and you have to these days, unless it's a very local firm), you need to have the best and brightest. It's not about giving UK graduates a "chance". It should be about strengthening UK education.

But then, you'll face another problem. If you make schools harder and more difficult, some people won't be able to cope and will get left behind and people will complain yet again.

But not everyone can win!

At some places I worked for, they only looked at graduates from the most competitive universities in the UK and abroad.

Adulting
Most polish people stay in education to masters level, that's "expected" in Poland.They might work in low paid jobs here while they find their feed and brush up their English, that doesn't make them low educated or unskilled.

Untrue. Most actually do not have a higher education. I am of course aware that when people move to other countries they usually take a low level job when they cannot speak the language, and I never said that because someone is working as a barrista it means they are uneducated, some are, some are not.

Smallfox has put up a figure of 24% of A8 immigrants having a degree, which sounds reasonable (though she gives no source) but all this is meaningless is if they not actually filling real skill shortages but just robbing British people of jobs by taking low skilled jobs that any British person could fill! In fact its really harmful for our more difficult to employ members of the working class, as well as people who are restricted in the hours they can work (single mums for example), if theyre having to compete with people who are no only able to offer more flexibility, but are also more intelligent than the job requires. Pro mass immigrationists dont give a f f** about these people, they are so in thrall to the open borders agenda.

"robbing British people of jobs by taking low skilled jobs that any British person could fill"

Immigration doesn't take jobs away from UK nationals, you are making a lump of labour fallacy. This is corroborated by studies completed by the LSE, UCL, Oxford Economics etc.

The rest of your argument continues to make the same fallacy.

I think you'll find most people don't have an "open borders agenda" it was you that mentioned that, here, have some straw for your man.

To add to my point about hard to employ British people having to compete unfairly for work, only this week on LBC a caller mentioned a Polish friend of his who has worked his way up to become a manager of a coffee shop, who told the caller that he will not employ black people because they are "lazy"!
Once you have a foreigner in a position to recruit, they prefer to recruit their own!

Oh give over Aerfen, for gods sake. You make yourself sound so stupid.

smallfox2002
I think you'll find most people don't have an "open borders agenda" it was you that mentioned that, here, have some straw for your man.

Of course they don't, most pro mass immigrationists are just their useful foot soldiers, but there is a hard core of extremists who do, and of course the EU itself does.

The EU doesn't though does it, because it closes its borders to economic migrants from outside the EU.

Because the said it on LBC (not known for its balance) it must be Da TROOF

"Immigration doesn't take jobs away from UK nationals, you are making a lump of labour fallacy. This is corroborated by studies completed by the LSE, UCL, Oxford Economics etc"
Yes I am well aware of the lump of labour fallacy as its called which assumes that the number of jobs is 'fixed' when in fact a growing populayion leads to growth and more jobs, but the counterargument is a crude one, and longer term, and in the short term and on an individual level people are very much affected by it as Professor Coleman, Oxford acknowledges.
You try telling a british builder who has seen his wages pushed down that he hasnt been affected and he is just using the 'lump of labout fallacy'!

You also have to realise that economists are driven by their own politcal agendas and both UCL and LSE are strongly pro mass immigration institutions (theyre stuffed to the brim with foreigners). The German Professor Dustmann at UCL was the source of the notorious 13K Poles figure used by Blair to quell anxieties about opening our labour markets so prematurely to the A8, an action which bears a significant share of the blame for the immigration nightmare this country faces now, and without which possibly the referndum that you are unhappy about, might not have happened.

Immigration doesn't really force wages down either, we discussed this before.

If you are in the "skilled" area as a builder would be then you would likely have seen your wages rise between 2004 and 2008 (whem EU 8 immigration was high) and fail to rise with inflation after 2008.

Again there is lots of research out there that proves that the much lower wage growth over the last 8 years has been to do with the fallout from the banking crisis rather than immigration.

Oh and that was a rather pathetic attempt to smear some academic organisations, you really think they'd tamper with finding because of some hidden agenda?

Think you might need to adjust that tin foil hat.

smallfox2002
Because the said it on LBC (not known for its balance) it must be Da TROOF
The bizarre mocking of a black inner city accent apart, no of course its only anecdotal, but backed up by plenty of evidence of widespread racism from Poles, and the equally obvious to those who dont where blinkers that foreign owned or managed businesses invariably have an 'over representation' of employees of the boss's ethnic group, be that a Vietnamese nail bar, curry house, Polski Sklep, or warehouse with a Polish foreman.

There is no reason to suppose a caller to a phone in is just 'lying' simply because he said something that suits your agenda.
You are right LBC isnt 'balanced' James O Brian bigot globalist left. Shelagh Fogarty another nauseatingly PC, both in prime slots!

simply because he said something that suits your agenda.

Correction:
simply because he said something that doesnt suit your agenda