Should we guarantee the rights of eu citzens to remain unilaterally

[ReallyTired]

I think we should. They came here with the belief that they could live here.

I suppose the argument is that Spain and France may not show compassion to British citizens who have emigrated. Certainly Spain may well be tempted to use it as leverage to gain sovernity of Gibraltar. I think the chances of the French being vindictive is less.

If Scotland leaves the uk and joins the EU could there be an arrangement where ex pats become Scottish citizens? (Even if they are 100% English or Welsh) in the event of British citizens being sent back?

Aerfen.

You've revealed yourself to me now - unfortunately, quite late for me to notice. You're nothing but a "Go back to your homeland" type... which you've pretty much said.

It is not "insulting" to say that the UK with its big gap in rich vs the poor, a failing health and education sector (that everyone complains about) and its perennially late trains have more in common with emerging economies than anything else. Look around MN boards outside of the EU referendum one. People (pure British ones, if you're interested) in the past have actually corrected others and said the UK has a caste system (like in India!) and not a class system. Yes, I was surprised hearing that, too! But they were right.

The fact that we're meant to be in the top 5% and have relatively normal lives (i.e. we don't live like the top 5% in the US or Germany, for example) should highlight the fact that there is something fundamentally wrong with this country... because that means anything further down from the 5% will be lower than in those other countries, too.

Britain "treated me well" as I speak other languages apart from English and can easily work across borders. Apparently, that is rare in the UK. Following the Brexit vote, I'm no longer surprised. Most of my employers were multinational companies that needed people with certain skills. They often ended up recruiting a high amount of EU citizens as they have the skills required (languages as a given, mathematical skills and internationally-minded). I'm not the only one. DH is one of only two Brits in his highly-skilled team.

I'm no longer going to participate in your tirade. All I wanted to show you is that the UK is not this perfect place you thought it was, which is being ruined by foreigners. Sometimes, it takes someone who has lived in other places to tell you that.

Snowbells - I think Aerfen is doing an extremely good job at illustrating the sort of country that what's left of the UK is becoming.

I'm just glad I'm in Scotland, where we have a chance of escaping that. Although I pity those that can't.

"You've consistently presented bigoted stereotypes of me."

You did that yourself when you made remarks about people being a burden, scroungers and parasites. You did it even further when you kept on at it when it was pointed out that it was a minuscule proportion of people that you were complaining about.

Snow's comments about inequality in the UK are actually true. We have one of the largest divides in the EU, our gini coefficient is far higher than that of Germany.

Aerfen

If you were made PM tomorrow, what would you do about EU citizens living in the UK? Would you return us all to our homeland?

"Hopefully, now that DH has seen his colleagues make the move, we can follow a few years down the line and leave Little England to the Little Englanders like you."

Wow. Please don't judge us all by aerfen's standards!

FarAwayHills

If you were made PM tomorrow, what would you do about EU citizens living in the UK? Would you return us all to our homeland?

I have already made my position clear I would do what any responsible PM would, attempt to cut a deal with the EU which would protect the interests of British citizens in the EU in return for the rights of EU citizens to remain here. Equally all the rights they currently enjoy, would have to depend on British citizens in the EU enjoying the same. There would also need to be a 'right to remain' visa granted, similar to those granted to non EU immigrants in order that for the future we could distinguish those already settled here from new arrivals. I believe a cut off date should be set as soon as possible.

Obviously EU immigrants like yourself and Snow would love us to be a soft touch and simply guarantee your future here unilaterally but only a gullible or dimwitted indigenous Briton would support such a proposal.

Aerfen

That post was a really long winded way of saying "fuck off home", don't think nobody has clocked it.

I voted remain and am most certainly not in the "top 5% of earners". I probably do know more about the EU and trade agreements than you ever will though.

It's like somebody farted in here .

Aerfen

I do have more than one passport, you know. Lived across several continents over the course of my life. Great to be thought of constantly as an "EU immigrant" by the likes of you. Never heard that anywhere else.

How can you even negotiate when everyone knows you'll be leaving the EU anyway? What's the point in negotiating for the other party (EU), if the outcome is already known? Having committed to Brexit, the UK has basically given away its BIGGEST bargaining chip ever!

And P.S., Aerfen... unless I wasn't clear enough in my previous posts... I HAVE British citizenship, so my future is fine. Or is the aspect of having several citizenships too much for you to take?

Aerfen

Indigenous Britions.....says it all really.

Give a bigot or racist enough rope and they will eventually hang themselves.....

^^ above because that is not the sort of country or society I want to live in.

Thankfully there are plenty on here who are challenging such viewpoints.

'Indigenous Britain'

Is this for real?

I have never been called an 'EU immigrant' in 40 years!!! This is so .. outdated and condescending.

Sorry meant 'Indigenous Briton'.

This statement is remarkable; sounds so racist.

Indigenous is a difficult term, and certainly couldn't be applied to anyone living in the UK today.

When you use it like you have Aerfen, you show both your ignorance and your nefarious objectives.

But then it makes you all the easier to dismiss.

Very good!

For those posters who can speak French. A 1960's French comedian , Fernand Raynaud, was famous for his show called ' I am a Customs Official and I do not like foreigners because they come and steal French people's bread'.

The show is a Customs Official 's xenophobic rant about foreigners which is reminiscent about one particular poster on this thread. At the end the foreigner leaves and the villagers no longer eat bread because the foreigner was the village's baker..

Le Douanier (The Customs Official)
m.youtube.com/watch?v=ppzQ-dsdquI

Script- I am a Customs Official and I cannot stand foreigners.
societe.aufeminin.com/forum/y-en-a-marre-des-etrangers-qui-viennent-manger-l-pain-des-francais-fd2870107

FarAwayHills
"Indigenous Britions.....says it all really."

Are you saying that there are no indigenous Britons?

That in itself is a racist comment, unless you refuse to apply the description "indigenous" to every other ethnic group in the world!

Every country in the world, if you go back far enough, is peopled by 'immigrants' since everyone came 'out of Africa'. In that sense there are no indigenous people! However if you are prepared to describe Poles, Tibetans, Amerindians, Icelanders, Arabs, Turks etc etc as 'indigenous' or 'native' to their homelands, then it is pure and simple 'racism' to say Brits, whose heritage lies here in the British Isles, do not have a right to be regarded as indigenous or native Britons too.

Would you sneer at people of other ethnies who describe themselves as 'native' or 'indigenous' and challenge them?

"Are you saying that there are no indigenous Britons?"

Yup that's exactly what I'm saying.

Basically if you live in a European country there has been so much movement of peoples that it is incorrect to describe anyone as "indigenous".

I think you said you are Irish FAH?
Are there no indigenous or native Irish in your book either?

Indigenous Briton?

Also in the way that you use indigenous Aerfen, is indicative of your approach to immigrants as a whole.

If you live in England you live in a country which takes it's name from that of a tribe from Germany, speak a language which has its origins in Frisian Dutch and has been layered over the centuries with Gaelic, French, Norse, Latin, Welsh, Hindi, as the peoples mingled.

You live in a country that has a Queen descended from a German line, married a man with a Greek and Danish heritage.

You live in a country that owes much of its wealth to the subjugation of other nations and the repatriation of their wealth to this country.

And you complain about immigration.

For those posters who can speak French.

Vous voulez rire ?!

"Basically if you live in a European country there has been so much movement of peoples that it is incorrect to describe anyone as "indigenous".

You are wrong.
From the time human beings moved out of Africa and occupied the world, what is remarkable is that there has been ^relatively little movement6 , at least until the peopling of the New World by Europeans.
Prior to that people pretty much stayed PUT.
Of course there has always been some movement, but it was almost all small scale, little enough that most indigenous Europeans with grandparents born in the same area can actually be identified by their DNA to within 100kms of their birthplace.

Even in an island as small as Britain DNA can identify individuals as likely to have a heritage in the east or west of Britain based on their having Anglo Saxon markers or not, and this after a millenium and a half of being able to move around our island freely.
Its relatively easy to distinguish an individual who is say indigenous Polish from one who is indigenous British.

Most other parts of the world have MORE not less 'mixed' populations.
India for example, central Asia, Africa.

If youre dismissing the use of the word 'indigenous' for Europeans then to avoid racism you must dismiss it for all but the most remote isolated tribal societies which are inbred and with no admix, some Amazonians for example, Inuit and so on.