Should we guarantee the rights of eu citzens to remain unilaterally

[ReallyTired]

I think we should. They came here with the belief that they could live here.

I suppose the argument is that Spain and France may not show compassion to British citizens who have emigrated. Certainly Spain may well be tempted to use it as leverage to gain sovernity of Gibraltar. I think the chances of the French being vindictive is less.

If Scotland leaves the uk and joins the EU could there be an arrangement where ex pats become Scottish citizens? (Even if they are 100% English or Welsh) in the event of British citizens being sent back?

Are there no indigenous or native Irish in your book either?

You mean all that scandanavian viking blood?
Or the blue eyed black haired "galway" look is attributed to spanish blood?

"Anglo Saxon markers"

So not British then?

Anglo Saxon markers

It's almost axiomatic that when someone bangs on enough about being "British", they haven't a clue what they are talking about, or the history of Britain (pound to a penny they won't have a clue why we live in Great Britian either).

It's a little tiresome having to be polite and credit these people with the brainpower needed to engage in meaningful debate. They haven't and deserve to be called out on their ignorance.

PMSL at the idea that "Anglo Saxon" is remotely "British".

Oh, and if you want to talk about things preserved in history, then much more important (and less known) is the fact that when William the Bastard came over here (taking our jobs, natch) and dished out the very land upon which we still walk today to his cronies,

over 70% of that land is still owned by 1% of the population - direct descendants of those cronies

www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/10/last-1000-years-families-owned-england/

Now that's worth debating. Let's get rid of those Norman interlopers for a start ....

Are there no indigenous or native Irish in your book either?

Yes of course there are - we have Leprechauns

FAH
Nice wriggle!
But I would be interested in your more considered reply?

I'm trying to think just WHO would be "indiginous Irish"

I'm wondering if the travelling community might have the purest blood? I somehow don't think that's who Aefen had in mind.

It wouldn't be people from gaeltacht areas as most gaeltachts are coastal so there's all kinds of sailor and missionary blood from all over there

LH
Oh, and if you want to talk about things preserved in history, then much more important (and less known) is the fact that when William the Bastard came over here (taking our jobs, natch) and dished out the very land upon which we still walk today to his cronies, over 70% of that land is still owned by 1% of the population - direct descendants of those cronies

Indeed, and one of our problems in Britain is that the elite, going right back to Norman times, developed a scorn for the indigenous Their foreign admix led to a class divide between the elite and the plebs which has passed down through the centuries. Consider the Norman names of Jane Austins favourite romantic hero and his vile aunt Lady Catherine de Burgh!

Much of the native elite had their lands stolen and were forced into penury , except the sell outs of course.

So. DH is English, in that he might as well have jumped out of a Jane Austen novel.

But look closer, and there's Scottish and Swedish (!!!) blood to be found.

Do you live in a house/on land that's been in your family for generations/all known history? Aefen? If not will you be giving it up and offering it to people whose ancestors lived on that land at some point?

Where are you even going with this? In real practical terms?

I'm trying to think just WHO would be "indiginous Irish"

Really?

Do you have the same struggle working out who might be an indigenous Tibetan, indigenous Pole, indigenous American or indigenous Syrian? Would you demand that they prove their 'pure blood'?

Do you shun the use of the word and claim there are NO indigenous people?

There are most certainly distinctly indigenous people in other parts of the world. In Ireland and England, nope. We're not geographically isolated enough to have retained anything of the sort.

I'm trying to think just WHO would be "indigenous Irish"

Well, the Celtic element started in mainland Europe and was pushed North/West by the ongoing Roman takeover of Gaul. Those that know their history (so not everyone on this thread) will remember that Julius Caesars' "invasion" of Britain in 55BC was on the pretext of preventing the British Celtic tribes helping the Gallic Celtic tribes. From then to the Roman exodus in 405 CE, the Celts were pushed into Wales and Ireland (where they doubtless displaced whoever was there before - the "indigenous" Irish).

There's a delicious irony in the fact that the closest European language to Cornish is Breton ...

But you're the one making a claim for there being "indigenous Irish" so if they exist, surely you could tell us who they are?

I mean we can rule out the likes of Irish Folk singer Christie Moore (Moore being one of the surnames associated with the spanish armada)

who can we rule IN?

"Do you live in a house/on land that's been in your family for generations/all known history? Aefen? If not will you be giving it up and offering it to people whose ancestors lived on that land at some point?"

Indigenous people do not 'own' land in the the modern sense of holding a freehold. But yes, the native British people have collectively owned our island since time immemorial, every bit as much as have Tibetans, Inuit, Icelanders, Syrians, indeed all ethnic groups in the 'Old world'.
We own a small enough share of the world, and we have a right to control who is allowed to join us and gain a share in it.

Adulting
I was asking FAH not you, what her opinion is re indigenous Irish.

The surname of the side of my family that's very Oirish (red hair and everything!) traces back to a migration from scotland that probably originated in scandenavia.

Indeed, and one of our problems in Britain is that the elite, going right back to Norman times, developed a scorn for the indigenous Their foreign admix led to a class divide between the elite and the plebs which has passed down through the centuries.

It's preserved in our mother tongue (oh the irony of the UKIP complaint about "speaking English"). One of the best examples is how meats are split between what they are called by the peasants who had to farm them, and what they are called by the nobs who got to eat them ...

Cow/Bouef
Pig/Porc
Sheep/Mouton

Oh, and the North/South divide. Probably enshrined for eternity when William the Bastard undertook "the harrying of the north".

Aerfen well I'm asking you. Do you think there are living groups of people who can be considered "indigenous Irish"/"indigenous English" or not?

The Icelanders probably have the purist DNA/genetic ancestry - yet even they aren't indigenous to Iceland, being the descendants, literally, of Vikings.

Wonder how many generations after an injection of impure "foreign" blood would be allowed before Aerfen would consider that you were sufficiently pure indigenous to be allowed to stay? My dh has olive skin and black eyes, yet claims to be 100% Scottish. He's probably the result of a shipwrecked Spaniard from the Spanish Armada. Is he no longer indigenous?

My bloodline is, I believe (but I haven't double checked my mother's mother's side) is more than 50% English, going back to the 16th Century. I can supposedly claim royal blood (but there again, even that's not pure ). (family trees done on both my father's father's side and my mother's father's side back to the early 1500s)

Is that good enough? Or would the fact that I consider my lineage to be more Central European/South African/Australian in other words a mongrel disqualify me?

Shame I had to go through the faff of naturalising to get my British passport . I look forward to claiming my Scottish passport when we can get them.

"There are most certainly distinctly indigenous people in other parts of the world. In Ireland and England, nope. We're not geographically isolated enough to have retained anything of the sort"

Ah right so only the remotest inbred tribes then?
Amerindians, Australian Aborigines, central Asia, the middle east all disqualified, likewise the 'oldest' people in the world the San people of south Africa excluded due to their 'Bantu' admix.
Only those with 'pure blood' right?.

The Spanish Armada also landed on Irish shores... too many gorgeous Irish men who can also tan without going lobster red!

yes, the native British people

Ah ! You mean the Beaker People

you should have said ! Now we understand ...

Oh, hang on. They came from mainland Europe. Bastards. Kick them out now, I say !

Wonder how many generations after an injection of impure "foreign" blood would be allowed before Aerfen would consider that you were sufficiently pure indigenous to be allowed to stay?

We need a UK equivalent of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws ... the Pucklechurch Proposition ?

"The Icelanders probably have the purist DNA/genetic ancestry - yet even they aren't indigenous to Iceland, being the descendants, literally, of Vikings"

Everyone who left East Africa is descended from earlier settlers!
Even remote Amazon tribes wouldnt qualify as 'indigenous' by your criteria i.e any group descended from people who migrated cannot be indigenous, being as they descended from people who moved there from Asia!

There is no end to the contortions Brit haters will go to to deny us the right to our ethnicity!

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