Does anyone still think the referendum was a good idea?

[whydidhesaythat]

Just checking.

Aerfen, , why was the referendum wonderful? How are you hoping it will benefit you personally?

BertrandRussell
I certainly agree that Mark Carney knows far more than most, but do you really think he cares more about ordinary Britons, or the international bankers and multinationals that have power and wealth in their gift.

Where will Mark Carney be hoping to go next I wonder, head up the IMF maybe?

Climate change caused by human activity? Academics debate how much, only a small number dispute whether it's human-caused.

Brexit is bad or very bad for economy? Most debate is in how much, not on the main message. Oh well, I suppose some draft economics PhD proposals are being written now.

The ranks of "experts" presented to us during the campaigns were organised by the pro-remain no10 etc. They wrote letters ready for people to put their name to, and got them published in pro-remain newspapers. Every few days there was another one, to the extent it became predictable

That's actually a really great idea, getting experts to side with you. I wonder why Leave didn't do that, afterall they've proved they are not averse to lying.

Unless - shock, horror- Leave couldn't find any experts willing to agree with them.

BT
I am looking forward to a freer Britain with more autonomy , and democracy, which for all its many faults, is closer to home than the EU .

I do not expect any direct personal gain from Brexit, I am taking the long view, generations not just next year, and I really hope it will be followed by a Frexit and a Grexit and the whole horrible juggernaut collapses to be replaced by a far lss ambitious tradee organisation. I do not want to see the many nations, ethnies and languages of Europe shaken and stirred into a US consumerist rootless homogeneity. Do you?

I am looking forward to a freer Britain with more autonomy , and democracy, which for all its many faults, is closer to home than the EU

So in which way did the EU's 'control' effect you personally?

I keep asking people which EU laws upest them but no-one answers.

Are all MPs 'elites'? Are all "experts" elites?

You'll have to ask claig for the proper definition of "elite" But for my posts above, I've been thinking of it in terms of the powerful, privileged and wealthy.

FWIW no, I don't think all MPs are "elites", though several are (Eton anyone?). Many MPs are of course ordinary hard-working people doing their job for the benefit of others.

I see intelligence and academic specialism as a very different (and positive) definition of "expert" and "elite", unrelated to wealth or power. The professor working to find cures for disease, the playwright who's the new Shakespeare, or the scientist who discovers a new planet.

Now and again it becomes clear that some of the most powerful people in the world aren't necessarily the most intelligent. Some are, but not all. So there's another definition of "elite", i.e. those with money, influence and connections. They are the "elites" who benefit from big business, big banks, political power (official and unofficial), social connections, international entertainment, corporations, influence on the media etc. I'm not convinced they think about "what's in it for the ordinary citizen?" when making decisions, above "how much money can I make?"

Where will Mark Carney be hoping to go next I wonder, head up the IMF maybe?

Mark Carney can do whatever he likes afaic. He's my current hero, one of the few that have shown true leadership and a calm head during this dark fortnight.

MotherOfBleach
Because Brexit were not financed by Goldmann Sachs as Bremain were and had to operate on a far smaller budget.

The ranks of "experts" presented to us during the campaigns were organised by the pro-remain no10 etc.

Were the other experts bound and gagged and locked up in a room?

MotherOfBleach even if all EU laws were perfect, I still wouldn't want to become part of a superstate. I don't want the UK to just be a puppet.

How much do experts charge these days?

This guy doesn't seem short of a £ or two I'm sure he could have afforded at least one expert.

shown true leadership and a calm head during this dark fortnight.
He would be utterly incompetent if he didnt!
But, I also felt that his latest comments included a paragraph which was unnecessary and negative.

Leave couldn't find any experts willing to agree with them.

I'm sure they could, it just wasn't part of their strategy. It also depends who you call an expert. In a democracy I'd like to think ordinary people are experts in their own lives. Shockingly this has become drastically less accepted as we can see with so many comments about how you can't trust the opinion of ordinary people. The disenfranchised people in the north who do not benefit from EU showcasing as Cornwall does for example, know very well what's happening and no dire economic forecast from a rich southerner will make any difference because they have nothing left to lose anyway.

The disenfranchised people in the north who do not benefit from EU showcasing as Cornwall does for example

I'm from the north. We benefit plenty from the EU showcasing. In fact we are facing a loss of 665 million worth of EU showcasing because our people are sheeple who, for the main part, don't like brown people.

Were the other experts bound and gagged and locked up in a room?

No but as ever they know which side their bread is buttered. Where do you think academics get their research funding from? Which academics get professorships at top universities? Yes those who pull in the research funding.

Since when has the North not received EU funding?

So Aerfen, do you think the electorate were voting to stay in or out of the EEA?

"am looking forward to a freer Britain with more autonomy , and democracy, which for all its many faults, is closer to home than the EU"

I don't understand this. What do you mean?

Aerfen

You don't need a big budget when your campaign is buit on lies.

Goldmans contributed 500 grand to remain, Peter Hargreaves (of Hargreaves lansdown ) contributed 3.2 million to leave.

There weren't many economic experts for remain. Prof Minford of Cardiff etc whose model was throughly excoriatingly criticised by an LSE report. Prof Steve Keen whose plans were very sketchy to name but two.

Overwhelmingly economists - institutions, think tanks, academic reports all agreed it was a very bad idea.

But hey people have had enough of experts.

But hey people have had enough of experts

These people who've had enough of experts are doing us a favour really. I mean waiting times on NHS consultants should go right down now

There's an excellent clip on another thread called "The story behind Leave from s Yorks" and how the area definitely hasn't benefited from the EU.

So... the Leave/claig narrative is that Leave will mean better conditions for the non-elites? And those of us who aren't elite but go along with the elite perspective are what... "sheeple" ? Are the Elites supposed to all be speaking with one voice?

Brexiters = Jacob Rees Mog, James Dyson, Boris Johnson: if they aren't elites, who is?

But hey people have had enough of experts

Yes. It wasn't long before many of us had had enough of experts putting the economy above democracy, sovereignty etc. Not everyone thinks money is the most important thing. And yes, those on the leave side are as affected as much as anyone else, but aren't swayed by the experts as they don't put money first. The well-off experts just don't seem to get that. They think it's because those stupid leavers don't understand that money is the most important thing in the world