Any Remainers feeling positive about chances of staying in EU - even a little bit?

[EdieParfitt]

Anyone?

I'm hoping that Mishcon de Reya's legal challenge that a parliamentary debate and vote on the Referendum is required before Article 50 is invoked will kick start a a remain fight back.

mother I agree on the May point. It bothers me enormously too.
But you're incorrect on the voting in this referendum, EU nationals here as well as Irish folk who entered under CTA were allowed to vote, and commonwealth nationals.

Having said that I did see a fair few posts about ex pats and postal votes going awry. Did anything get done regarding that?

Actually mother I think I misread your post, you're talking about voting bias designed to swing referendum aren't you?

I think people would regret Ken Clarke pretty quickly too.....

Yes, but not as much as Gove or Leadsom.

In all seriousness, I remember Ken Clarke as Health Minister and an election poster:

"What do you call a man who does not take doctor's advice? Mr Clarke"

MP's generally seem far more reasonable once they've reached veteran status. Plus he's pro-Europe so he's appealing to me a lot at the moment.

EU nationals could not vote in this referendum - but Commonwealth citizens on the register could

No.
I see little hope that politicians of any colour will manage this well.
I can only hope that somehow, someone will find a way a) to trigger a GE, and b ) to rerun a referendum, with a clear 'here's how we'll do it' pair of options, so we all know what we'd get.

Apologies, I was under the impression Eu nationals could vote based on the posts here's do stuff I heard elsewhere that said their migrant neighbour had voted one way or the other. I knew about commonwealth and Irish for definite. I'm still learning.

But yes, there does really appear to be some electorate bias happening.

The SG made the decision for the Indyref that they would treat it like a local election, which allows EU nationals (as well as Commonwealth nationals ) to vote, based on being resident in Scotland at the time. They had also, as per their manifesto, reduced the voting age to 16.

Their argument was that it was civic nationalism - based on whether or not you were currently contributing (or being a drain on ) the Scottish economy.

The UK elections - and this referendum - were/are under the purview of Westminster so it's their rules. The SNP did try to get the voting age lowered for the referendum (seeing as it's their futures that will be most affected) but were voted down. I also have a vague recollection that some EU citizens took their "ban" to court but lost.

Wales would now vote to Remain

If stuff like this ^ gains momentum - maybe that will trigger something other than Article 50

I don't care how stupid we look (we can't look much stupider now anyway) I would rather stay in.

EU nationals most certainly could not vote in this referendum. My dh is German, having lived and paid taxes here for 15 years, but our household only got 1 vote (mine).

On the other hand, UK nationals who have been away for 15 years also had no right to vote in this referendum (my Dad, DSS and DSB live in an EU country and had no right to vote, even though all three are doing know which require taxes are paid to the UK). These whole set up was highly baised in favour of excluding those who have exercised their right to freedom of movement.

I said all along that there was too much power and money at stake for an out vote to be enacted and genuinely believe we are in a phase where politicians and those in authority try frantically to finangle things.

Always worries me when the Daily Mail agrees with me though here

& not invoking Article 50. Feck lot of good reasoned argument is going to do us now, though. :(

Thanks for this Lijkk, Prof Dougan is a voice of reason. And calm.

I'm clinging on to the hope that it's not too late.

I don't think it's a done deal. I think there will be surprises yet to come.

But if not, I am sure we will in a decade from now be waiting on a report that outlines exactly who was responsible for this shitstorm and their lack of duty of care they had their failure to act in the benefit of the U.K.

oh Chilcot is unemployed now, shall we get him on it?

I read something somewhere about the best case scenario of Brexit which was very dynamic and hinged on Britain being able to function similarly but with less monetary regulation than the EU so becoming a financial powerhouse. It would, of course, require us to find a politician or two that was moderately capable.

Let's hope that in 10 years everything is booming and everybody is wondering why they panicked

Greenwood We look stupid because we are stupid - or at least inadequately trained to face today's employment market. Perhaps if more than just 63% of the population had a grade C or above in gcse maths and English, we wouldn't have to worry quite so much about all these foreigners coming over and stealing our jobs.

I'm angry because I've just been on the other thread about the daily mail comments wanting all the forinners sent home 'straightaway'. What has happened to this country.

Let's hope that in 10 years everything is booming and everybody is wondering why they panicked

A ten year time span can be too long for some people. Imagine school leavers and young graduates looking for entry positions in the jobs market; by the time the economy picks up another half generation has grown up behind them.

I think we should have had something more than hope and a fingers crossed approach.