Any Remainers feeling positive about chances of staying in EU - even a little bit?

[EdieParfitt]

Anyone?

I'm hoping that Mishcon de Reya's legal challenge that a parliamentary debate and vote on the Referendum is required before Article 50 is invoked will kick start a a remain fight back.

Unfortunately, if the main employer in your town is Nissan, jaguar, Airbus, rolls Royce, Tata steel or whatever, and yet your town votes overwhelmingly for leave it does look like you've shafted yourselves.

Of course the Tory party will shaft the poorest. All financial resources will be directed to shoring up the economy. It was well documented in the literature that I read before the referendum that leaving the EU would lead to a drop in living standards for the average working person.

Don't forget that Cameron called this Referendum to stop his own party 'banging on about Europe'. It was just a bonus for Leave that they picked up the disaffected Labour vote. Now, if Cameron had bothered to do his homework, he could probably have found that out beforehand, and found an excuse to delay the referendum. But no, Cameron was the sort of man who would stay up all night to get a last minute essay written. Then again, Cameron was hamstrung, because the things that the EU did well, like introduce legislation about workers rights and environmental concerns, were things that he didn't want.

Depressingly I reckon the actual economic impacts will be on their way to Boston and Wales soon enough .

Calm capable Mark has relaxed bank capital requirements, this pot in particular is intended to be held by banks and then released in times of stress, and it looks like we are in a time of stress. It means the banks can lend 150bn to businesses/people which they otherwise wouldn't have. In some ways it's good we've just recovered from a financial crisis as the BoE is pretty primed for this kind of thing- things went worse in 2008ish because banks just clung onto their money and stopped lending.

Rock it's a difficult ethical question though: if you know as a politician that something you do will definitely make things worse for people in deprived areas, should you just do it because most of those people voted for it?

At the moment none of the economic options look even remotely OK for the medium term, and ten years of recession will impact long term health outcomes, housing availability, educational outcomes, all sorts, not just how much people have week to week. I'd feel very very uncomfortable pushing that button myself.

Gove would definitely push the button, I think, and hang the result. May is much more of a pragmatist, and probably a better negotiator.

Yes

Gove is out- that Clarke quote will stick to him like glue- what was it-

"He'd be at war with three countries at once"- it just rings true.

Article 50 will be declared by a Tory pm who will call for a general election and disappear to leave someone yo clean up the mess. Deja vu?

That Clarke quote is glorious. But yes Gove is terrifying, as is Leadsom. I hope TM is able to do some pragmatic fudging when it comes to it.

I am kind of hoping but I agree with Piglet. If this referendum is overturned, then it will only mobilise the far right even more.

However, I do resent how the Leave campaign was conducted as it was based on lies and hysteria.

Then again, there is currently an Iraq enquiry saying the same thing and much more was at stake then and now 13yrs on

No. Not until there is a shift in the public mood.

I think Ken Clarke should be PM.

Ken Clarke not giving a damn

I don't have much hope. Any I do have left could be described as being in denial. If Theresa May gets the job then it might not be a total disaster. That's all I can cling on to.

The problem with May is she desperately wants out of ECHR, and that probably means the EU wouldn't deem us worthy enough to be in Union with. I strongly suspect she voted leave. However of the 5 out forward, she is definitely the best option. In negotiations with the EU we will definitely need a bloody difficult woman.

She's said she won't pull out of the ECHR recently, since launching her leadership campaign.

I don't care if she voted leave to be honest, I just think she will handle our exit negotiations better than the other candidates, as I think that is all any Remainer (and indeed Brexiter) can hope for now. Someone who can negotiate us out with grace, in front of the eyes of the world.

Ken Clarke for PM seconded!

I think/hope she'd be less likely to go after the ECHR given the other stuff at stake. God knows though. But hoorah for bloody difficult women! [Disclaimer, please not Leadsom]

I think I am in denial too.

Sadly.

This is just not the UK I want to live in . It may not even be the UK for that much longer .

Which reminds me that SNP and Northern Irish MPs will probably raise hell and try to delay/avoid Brexit. Hopefully.

alis i know I sound like someone dismayed at a lying politician but the ECHR ambition scares me. I suspect her u turn is more to do with trying to appear more liberal than the others. Plus it's always the next scapegoat after leaving the EU which will come in handy later

I understand where you're coming from, Strictly, I think it horrifying that we might pull out of the ECHR. I really quite like having overarching human rights which our corrupt as fuck government cannot rip away from us whenever they feel like it.

I hope she has genuinely had a rethink on this particular issue.

Me too alis on the rethink and liking someone to overarch us

Not sure what will happen. I don't think any government has a mandate to lead us down a path of predicted economic ruin however.
I agree with this.
It is a total mess, however. How dare Cameron gamble our future for the sake of his career?

Bearing in mind the fact that Ken Clarke was the first health secretary I remember "reforming" the NHS, he introduced the "internal market" and that older medic friends still hold him responsible for a lot of the problems the NHS has faced since, I think you would all regret that pretty quickly

I think people would regret Ken Clarke pretty quickly too.....