Any Remainers feeling positive about chances of staying in EU - even a little bit?

[EdieParfitt]

Anyone?

I'm hoping that Mishcon de Reya's legal challenge that a parliamentary debate and vote on the Referendum is required before Article 50 is invoked will kick start a a remain fight back.

Would you still be of the same opinion if remain had won? I am gutted at the result. I don't see how we can possibly ignore it though.

There is a strong argument for ignoring it, since the shower of eejits that campaigned for Leave, have now all fled the sinking ship. Had the Remain campaigners done that on winning, then we would - and should - rightly question them, as well.

Did those who voted for Leave envisage this happening? Their heroes of the hour all defecting, and washing their hands of it all? Coming out and saying that their aim was simply to secure a Leave win, but then leave the sorting out of it all to everyone - anyone - else? Is this honestly what Brexiteers voted for and expected?

No, not really.

In theory, I don't see why (if we had an actual functioning PM in place) s/he couldn't say 'ok, we had a mandate for a referendum and we had one - thanks for your views, but we don't think the majority is strong enough to go ahead'. But that's not going to happen.

I just hope the ensuing disaster doesn't hit too many of the people who don't deserve it too hard.

The question is: is there a single politician who will go through with it? They'd have to be pretty stupid. Boris and Farage have run away, knowing full well they don't want it on their heads.
Whoever actually invokes article 50 knows that it will be career suicide and that they will go down in history as the pm who led the country into a financial crisis and the eventual end of the United Kingdom when Scotland leaves.

There is a strong argument for ignoring it, since the shower of eejits that campaigned for Leave, have now all fled the sinking ship.

Last time I checked Cameron the PM of the country who resigned on the actual day of the result, campaigned for remain.

I think especially as a lot of leave voters have said they'd vote differently now, a second referendum with only the truth being allowed by both sides is the only democratic thing to do.

Surely someone will stand in a General Election, and make it quite clear they have no intention of invoking Article 50. If they win, they will have a mandate.

Imo no it wouldn't. Our voting system isn't the same as referendum voting.

You'd be going back again to the situatution where many feel their voice isn't being heard.

Also if GE was held on that alone then expect to see a rise in UKIP. Especially if their new leader is a less divisive person than Farage.

I think especially as a lot of leave voters have said they'd vote differently now

I also know of remain voters that would abstain or vote leave if it was re-run again as the result is the result. It can't just be kept going until Remainers (of which I am one) get things to go our way.

A bit.

Well Piglet l know none and l hadn't seen any on the news but if you say so

But a truthful campaign needs to be run by both sides with only the facts being presented. Quite frankly the world is laughing at the British, not for the ref itself, but for the utter shitstorm it's thrown its own country into.

Those who talk about life improving after a few years, how long is a few, literally 3 or are we talking 10? And those that can leave will, leaving 'Great' Britain screwed even more.

Well Piglet l know none and l hadn't seen any on the news but if you say so

Just because you know none and not seen any on the 'news' it doesn't mean they don't exist

I do a lot of campaigning for this and for local CLP. They do exist.

I wonder how long the next tory leader can drag it out. Will they want to get it sorted and finished in time for the 2020 election to give them a chance of winning or accept it'll go tits up, they'll lose and leave labour or whoever to clear up the mess.

Last time I checked Cameron the PM of the country who resigned on the actual day of the result, campaigned for remain.

I doubt he would have resigned if Remain had won!

I voted remain. I don't see us staying in. Just hoping the next Tory leader doesn't go hell for leather and get us a worst case scenario WTO agreement.

I doubt he would have resigned if Remain had won!

Me neither.

It was the assumption that only leavers were resigning.

Cameron is ultimately responsible for this mess. He called it and abandoned it when the results were barely known.

Removing us completely from the EU and the single market will be dire.

Negotiating a Norway type agreement - might be ok, but expensive, and a lot of upheaval.

Most people seem to agree that there will be an impact on the economy, which even if short term will still be very damaging.

I very much doubt if we'll be better off, even in the long run. There will be winners and losers (there always are) - I imagine the rich will mostly be OK, and the poor will bear the brunt.

I think there will be a few more twists and turns before the issue is settled.

There are many good reasons for politicians to adopt right now a "we must heed the outcome of the referendum" stance.

There are many good reasons for the UK not to leave the EU, something which is not due to happen for a while.

Many negotiations between many parties (including, in all probability, a GE) will take place in the intervening period.

Who knows what will actually happen? The final word on Brexit has not been spoken.

X-post, HelpfulChap :)

I have wondered if someone clever will come up with something along the lines of the 'Five Economic Tests' that need to be fulfilled before we joined the EMU. Of course, those tests never were fulfilled, and we never joined.

Five economic tests for triggering a50 - never will be fulfilled, so it's never triggered

The only person clever enough is Mark Carney - so I nominate him.

No. There was a vote - 'leave' got the majority. Now we all just need to wait and see what happens.

There was an advisory referendum where some massive lies turned the heads of a large number of people. Now we just need to roll over and accept it?

I really fail to see what is democratic about any of this.

The only way a 2nd ref or non exit campaign could gain momentum is if there is a mass movement of leave voters (with regrets-obv) behind it.

This is unlikely because most are still 'walking on air'.

Otherwise, I don't see how it can be done and maintain peace.

I would like to see someone held accountable for the lies of the Leave campaign, which in my opinion have damaged the democratic process far more grievously. I think it should be declared null and void for the NHS funding lie alone.

Once again, I find myself in agreement with BrickBeard. Imagine a finance company or bank (or any other company for that matter) peddling outrageous lies that had the potential for such detrimental effect. The ASA would be all over them like a rash.

I'm sure you've all seen this, but I'm hopeful that we will see more people talking the same sort of sense as Prof Michael Duggan.

The comments below the video are quite telling.

A referendum is not parliamentary democracy in action. We are supposed to have a parliamentary democracy in the UK.