Just watched the Panorama programme on why people voted leave

[ssd]

and am livid

so many people who had zero fucking clue what will now happen to this country, so many wanting to have England back to how it was years ago, well guess what it wont fucking happen, time doesnt go backwards and the immigration wont get any better, it wont stop and it wont go away, all thats happened is this country will now be less competitive and the economy will tank, and when the economy tanks they have to get the money from somewhere and it'll come from the poor as the services they rely on will be cut, massively

and this was meant to be a protest vote!!

why dont so many leave voters actually realise what the are protesting about, lack of schools, housing, the nhs queues, has happened because the tory government have followed an austerity agenda we didnt even need and thats why there is a chronic shortage of housing/school places, as none of these services are being built and if you think voting leave and having a more right wing tory government in place will help these services out by christ you've got another thing coming

its fucking maddening

Lost a comma there

Yup. I have very rich friends who vote Labour or Green, are very liberal and inclusive and cannot understand why someone in a former industrial city might view life differently from them.

Yeah, /me scrubs face. I guess it's because there are so many people saying these things for real on my Facebook rn. Getting a bit hair trigger over here! I'll go and do my actual job for a bit hahah.

Sarcastic? Nope I don't think so

Don't get wound up by call, she's trying to create a straw man argument, its her plan that someone will agree with her then she can do the whole "You don't want democracy argument "

She'll have a wait. Maybe we should make ?

So you don't like people you know being insulted?

So what do you suggest other than 'education'?

And exactly what form would this take?

See I don't think it is a straw man argument at all.

Either you want everyone to have a vote and are happy with that, acknowledging that differing levels of understanding, viewpoints, education and income will lead to differing views, or you are not. Which is it?

So what do you suggest other than 'education'

An indepenant body to dissect and lay out all of the claims made by each party.

More accountability for the media.

More investment in colleges etc in deprived areas.

Either you want everyone to have a vote and are happy with that, acknowledging that differing levels of understanding, viewpoints, education and income will lead to differing views, or you are not. Which is it?

Absolutely.

Which bit of that are you taking issue with small?

I'm fine with everyone having a vote. I'm not fine with the electorate being fed lies.

Remain were far from perfect, however they are guilty of over exageration and looking at the worst case scenarios.

Leave out and out lied.

People who didn't know how to question the information they were being fed or even that they should question, fell for these lies. The very people who benefit most from the EU were tricked into voting OUT.

Hence the need for an independant body that can turn around and say "hang on, that's not quite right, is it?"

mother you must live near me. We do have the neighbour with the horse though. And a few articulate leave voters. But also the person who wants to see the world burn!

One of my sets of neighbours have already been hit with a job loss post this, the other of the couple likely to soon. Rents have risen so sharply they're likely to have to leave the area as housing benefit will only cover about a third of a one bed flat. People on the street (not my actual street btw but from this area) have been on tv blaming the immigrants for rent rises. There's a massive infrastructure project going on and the house prices have all sky rocketed, therefore landlords are raising rents. It's not the immigrants at all, unless they are the ones forcing the infrastructure work, but I'm largely sure that's a local government initiative. (I appreciate that's not the reason everywhere but it bloody well is in 75% brexit land here).

Ok - but the premise of the OP was anger with the people who voted in a way she didn't.

Not with the politicians.

I never said I objected to people having the vote, that's why its a straw man argument that you were creating, you were deliberately trying to get someone to say the thing, so you could then attempt to destroy the argument.

Perfectly happy to have differing view points, but then I'm perfectly happy to critique those viewpoints as I see fit :)

Bleach there are well-educated people who have been posting on this board recently, who have voted remain who have made absolute howlers.

Despite their education, they have really basic misconceptions about the machinery of government; one poster thought Plaid Cymru were the majority party in Wales and predicated an entire outraged thread on that 'fact'; Several people have been convinced to the point of extreme aggression that Farage/UKIP/'that poster' were part of the official leave campaign; Lots of posters didn't know what Farage's day job is.

This are all daft mistakes by MN-demographic remain voters.

Daftness is politically indiscriminate.

smallfox, I'm happy for people to disagree but if you are happy for people to have the vote then you have to accept that this time it's not in your favour.

That's fine, but I also think there is a case for not following the non binding vote, when there was so much misinformation on the leave side, on top of this the recognition that the "protest vote" element was not to do with the issue at hand.

I think there is a legitimate case.

Um Dacre, I don't think you should be pointing out misunderstandings on the remain side.

The constant misuse of data on your own should worry you enough.

It's been both sides, no question.

Not by me though :)

But then I'm a complete geek.

I'm a geek and a stats head and there are still things I've learned after this referendum

Absolutely it was both sides.

For once, ed milliband nailed it.
Politicians listened to each other, not the people the purport to represent.

I live in the NE, Strictly. and yes, I would imagine some of my neighbours do have horses in their gardens. In fact there was a massive hunt for two escaped horses just yesterday. Facebook came to the rescue with people posting updates on the horses current whereabouts. They were eventually located on industrial land, I believe.

One of the reasons I heard recently for Leave was that there are too many take-aways in one area of our town.

Which he has a point about, tbf. Quite what the EU has to do with Iraqis and Turks coming here and setting up businesses in one area of the town, I don't know.

But I do agree that on that particular road there are too many take-aways.

*I think a lot of people need to burst out of their little pods and go and meet their fellow citizens.

Every second person you meet has visited every continent, but far fewer haven have been to Blackburn or Merthyr Tydfil or Thamesmead.

It's interesting to see these contrasts; well travelled people who've seen so little of the UK.*

I think this is a very important point tbh.

I am not particularly well travelled internationally, or even over the EU - but I have been to many, many places within the UK and have friends, family & colleagues from all over the UK, who range from the very bottom to the very top educationally, sociologically and economically.

You can blame whomever you want. The fact is that there will be seriously negative economic repercussions to this, both the Bank of England and the Chancellor have gone so far as to warn of this for all the 'We'll be fine' brigade.

It was a stupid, stupid economic decision and now every single one of will pay for it.