Just watched the Panorama programme on why people voted leave

[ssd]

and am livid

so many people who had zero fucking clue what will now happen to this country, so many wanting to have England back to how it was years ago, well guess what it wont fucking happen, time doesnt go backwards and the immigration wont get any better, it wont stop and it wont go away, all thats happened is this country will now be less competitive and the economy will tank, and when the economy tanks they have to get the money from somewhere and it'll come from the poor as the services they rely on will be cut, massively

and this was meant to be a protest vote!!

why dont so many leave voters actually realise what the are protesting about, lack of schools, housing, the nhs queues, has happened because the tory government have followed an austerity agenda we didnt even need and thats why there is a chronic shortage of housing/school places, as none of these services are being built and if you think voting leave and having a more right wing tory government in place will help these services out by christ you've got another thing coming

its fucking maddening

Well, obviously the system that allows only people of clear intelligence to vote.

I mean, that IS what people want ... Isn't it?

I started a thread about the system of testing they used to use in the Southern US States but sadly none of the testing advocates wanted to discuss it.

Sarcasm aside, people are strongly implying that they feel the vote is null somehow because people who they deem to be lacking intelligence have used it to vote to a different way to them.

Perhaps we should not have had a vote, and let that nice Mr Cameron decide, but I disagree.

I'm taking refuge in Orwell today: England Your England

I grew up in a deprived council estate in a relatively prosperous part of the South East. My relatives still live in and near there. The estate is no longer seen as deprived

Most of the people I still know there voted Leave and told me it was because of the Polish immigrants. When challenged if they have any impact at all on their day to day life they have said no. When it is pointed out that the way they have spoken about Polish people is racist they have claimed it is not. Completely them and us attitude and a feeling they have a 'right' to be racist

They have been played - Cameron couldn't out and out say that stretched resources was due in a huge part to Tory policies could he (tho why JC didn't is beyond me). When I told them what the economic impact would be of Leaving to them they didn't believe me

Many of my family and friends in that area are not white British by the way.

call not intelligence but propaganda and the inability or unwillingness to question it.

I live in one of the of the areas being discussed and have never used the term 'intelligence'

I use education. We have less eduactional opportunites, there is a lower focus on education than in middle class areas.

We're a region of hard workers, not academics and that's fine.

However these people are not stupid. We don't, in general, go looking for information in the same way a university grad might because it's not something we've been taught to do. We won't neccessarily understand media bias and the value of comparing sources of information because we've never been taught how.

That doesn't mean we couldn't understand.

I don't think people should be tested before voting but I do think we need an independant body to give people cold, hard facts.

For this referendum a list of pros vs cons and an brief explanation of what the EU/does for us would have been helpful, instead we got Remain waffling about things a lot of people didn't understand and Leave painting buses with shiny slogans that were outright lies.

Well Willow, the electoral commission actually came to that conclusion about the EU referendum when they did research into prior to it being announced.

Essentially they found that the issue was too complex and that people didn't know enough about the EU in order to make a properly informed decision.

But we were given in for the political expediency of winning votes at an election, Cameron never thought he'd win out right.

Secondly, I think people have a little bit of a right to feel aggrieved when votes have come out for leave because they were given misinformation, or because they believed that all immigrants would go home, or that they were voting against the elite. None of those things were true, and it is down to the electorate to inform themselves about the vote, the well being of the rest of the country has been put a stake because of it.

Mother Yes Yes re education.

Education also provides us with the ability to question propaganda and the 'factions' that are being spread

Some of you definitely have a gilded lily idea of education.

You can educate all you want: some still won't understand and some will still understand but disagree. Because nine times out of ten, what someone feels is more important than what they know.

But how much of what someone feels is built upon what they have read/seen over the years?

"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite.” Nelson Mandela

small Lovely quote thank you

Propaganda by it's very nature taps into 'feelings' . It is base and fearful. Education can help people question what they have been told

So just keep educating people out of those nasty attitudes then :)

We try, it has worked mostly, but it won't be eradicated completely.

It didn't work for 52% of the population, apparently!

Ah, you're going to be facetious.

Never said that 52% of the population weren't educated or that they were racist.

I said concerns about immigration were the biggest reason for the out vote, mostly concerns over hyped by the media and politicians.

Nope in my view it did not - those I know ...and I mean actually know...who voted leave based on immigration have done so due to believing the immigration stories they have heard

They did not question the propaganda....or the people spewing it

Exactly

So despite a free education available to them from 3 to 18 years they're still too damn stupid!

Take their vote away! There is NO other answer!

🌾Here's some straw for your man

"Take their vote away! There is NO other answer!"

Do you have anything to contribute other than sarcasm?

No matter how smart you may be, Willow, there is always someone smarter. Should they have your vote? How might you react once your vote is lost? Once half the population has no vote? Two thirds? All?

Think about the countries in the world where this is already true. Are they stable, rich societies?

Money isn't real, you know. You can't be rich all on your own. You can't eat gold. You need a society within which wealth can function.

call You are insulting. My friends and family are NOT stupid. I would never say that. I said they have been played by the propaganda. That when you really question why they voted out they can not really explain why. That people I have known all my life have now got racist traits to them that they never had before due to the hate driven propaganda that the Leave campaign spewed on an hourly basis

How bloody dare you insult people I know to score points

*call You are insulting. My friends and family are NOT stupid. I would never say that. I said they have been played by the propaganda. That when you really question why they voted out they can not really explain why. That people I have known all my life have now got racist traits to them that they never had before due to the hate driven propaganda that the Leave campaign spewed on an hourly basis

How bloody dare you insult people I know to score points*

Yup.

My dad cannot read or write properly, if you talk to him about economics his eyes glaze over. He believes everything he reads on Facebook (as long as its accompanied by a nice picture)

He wasn't racist until he found Facebook.

Give him some driftwood and power tools and within hours he can design and make you a rustic garden suite or fitted bedroom.

That's a not a stupid man.

However these people are not stupid. We don't, in general, go looking for information in the same way a university grad might because it's not something we've been taught to do. We won't necessarily understand media bias and the value of comparing sources of information because we've never been taught how.

Some of shrewdest people I ever met left school at 13. One of the very sharpest friends I ever had couldn't read or write.

Some of the least nimble thinkers I know (and some of the most gullible people I know) have degrees and professional qualifications.

I say 'some' because people differ and generalisations are impossible.

I think a lot of people need to burst out of their little pods and go and meet their fellow citizens.

Every second person you meet has visited every continent, but far fewer haven have been to Blackburn or Merthyr Tydfil or Thamesmead.

It's interesting to see these contrasts; well travelled people who've seen so little of the UK.

People who think that they're inclusive but have never been to the North, or set foot on a council estate, or been into a working man's club or a bingo hall. Who have no friends of different educational backgrounds to their own.

Weird.

Erm willow's being sarcastic people.