The Westministenders Hunger Games continues. Boris still trying not to be outmanoevered.

[RedToothBrush]

Clearly Boris didn't get the memo, on when to quit the power games, even after Gove schooled him in the dark arts of the Tory Leadership....

So the Tory Smackdown rolls on whilst Corbyn STILL clings on. UKIP has now entered the race to make a challenge for who can make the biggest leadership contest shambles.

In The Blue Corner
May strikes fear into the hearts of EU citizens as she counts her bargaining chips.
Gove strikes fear into the hearts of humans, with his Martian twitch.
Loathsom strikes fear in the hearts of Britains by talking about babies brains.
Crabb strikes fear into the hearts of Torys by suggesting a plan that Corbyn might like. (and that beard doesn't help).
And Fox.
Well he just turned up.

Johnson is still waiting in the wings to stab Gove. He'd quite fancy a seat at the cabinet table too.
Osborne has gone quite again and we wait with baited breathe to see if he is the 'Charlie off Casualty' of the Tory Party (y'know whatever happens he somehow survives like a cockroach).

In The Red Corner
Corbyn apologies. So we know he's getting a bit desperate.
Will the Unions figure out something else to do other than sit with their head in hands.
Angela Eagle is still doing jellyfish impressions and hasn't found that backbone.
We STILL don't know who the fuck Owen Smith is?
Will Bliar's chicken's finally come home to roost?
The Cult of Momentum, rumbles on. We aren't quite sure who they actually vote for, but they seem to like their Dear Leader.
When will this country next have an opposition party?

Its kinda getting boring guys, we need some action now. End the Chicken Coup! The Tories are definitely out doing in the high drama stakes.

In the Purple Corner
Farage has gone! Hurrah. We hope only that he stays under that rock.
(Don't count on it. They'll wheel him out when they need publicity)
Will Leadsom be elected leader? Oh sorry, wrong party. I was getting confused for a second there.
Will they throw the cuckoo Carswell out? [:)]
Will they be able to find a less offensive leader than Farage who can unite them in their common goal of errrr..... yeah. That.
How long before one of their candidates has to apologise for something?

And I suppose I should ask, when will a50 be triggered....? And by whom?

All these questions and more.
Sense of humour compulsory. No experience necessary though

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1 Previous thread 1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2672388-Has-Boris-been-outmanoevered-Will-someone-please-tell-me-who-is-in-charge Previous thread 2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/a2673982-Have-Boris-and-Jeremy-been-stabbed-in-the-back-Please-can-we-have-some-leaders Previous thread 3

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2675432-Boris-outmaneovered-Et-tu-Gove-Corbyn-The-Westministenders-Hunger-Games-Continues? Previous thread 4

I anticipate an awful lot of bland shifting as the consequences become apparent.

It will be all 'it's Cameron's fault for not having a plan' or 'it's the EU's fault for following their actual rules instead of realising how important we are' or 'it's remainders sabotaging thd banking system with their loss of confidence' .

None of it will be 'we fucked up, sorry.' At least not from the papers. Unless there are riots or something then the papers will be prissily uninvolved.

Following this thread with great interest - and thank you again Red for starting it.

That video of Paul Krugman and Andrea Leadsom - makes you want to pull your hair out, doesn't it?

She strikes me as an ideologically driven zealot who acts accordingly. Truly frightening - and you could say much the same about Tony Blair.

From my own experience, I'd like to highlight that civil servants really don't have as much influence as people think. Officials can research, advise and recommend till the cows come home but Ministers aren't obliged to go along with it - look at the recent Kids Company fiasco for an example of that.

Oh of course they'll never admit it, they'll shift the blame.

But for once the strength of the simple, obvious narrative is not on their side, so they'll be rowing against the tide. People aren't that stupid - the cause and effect will be pretty obviously apparent.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/chilcot-report-doesnt-say-it-8361054

What Chilcot doesn't say. An interesting take.

In fact I anticipate a certain degree of bitter satisfaction from seeing them squirm as they try to explain that "actually, it's more complicated than that". Complexity and nuance is not usually what they thrive on.
They also completely denied that it was in the Leave campaign - they quite deliberately blamed everything on the EU and liberals and foreigners. In continuing that, they lay themselves open to it.

Oh and we have Captain Brexit. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/07/toto-brexit-curtain-oliver-letwin?CMP=share_btn_tw
An man who has a career in gaffes
www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/30/oliver-letwin-a-career-in-gaffes
To cement the Brexit was deliberate by Remainers mentality.
(rather than it being two fingers to the Leavers as it was intended).

On the online abuse thing, there was a report in the Telegraph yesterday which said that if you are outside London, and are the victim of online fraud, you have very little chance of it being investigated. Action Fraud collate reports, and pass them to the National Fraud Intelligence Bureau, which analyses them and passes them to the police if there are viable lines of enquiry, but only about 30% actually get investigated. The police response was that they are not a money recovery service, but people should report crimes for the good of society.

My point (I do actually have one!) is that I can see online abuse reports going the same way. The majority of the responsibility for preventing fraud and sorting it out after the event is shouldered by the financial institutions, and in the same way, I can see moving towards a situation where the social media companies have to take more responsibility for the actions of their users. In part at least because a lot of the police forces just do not have the knowledge to see how these platforms are used. I can also see that if this does happen it will lead to a lot of stuff being swept under the carpet unless you have a high profile on the service, probably.

Leadsom says she wants to spread prosperity.

We need to heed those citizens who think the counry’s leaders are not worrying about them enough, she says.

She says people feel that big business bosses get salaries that bear no relation to their performance. She agrees, she says.

She says she wants to see better training and higher pay.

Let’s banish the pessimists, she says.

She quotes Mark Carney, the governor of the Bank of England, saying the UK can handle change. The question is how we adjust, she says.

She says she wants to speak to the markets. No one need fear our decision to leave the EU, she says. We will leave it carefully.

Trade will be the top priority. She wants to continue tariff-free trade with the EU.

And she wants free trade agreements with fast-growing economies around the world.

She wants a unicorn.

Oh wait she didn't actually say that last sentence.

Whenever an angel says "Be not afraid!" you'd better start worrying. A big assignment is on the way. Elie Wiesel.

She wants a unicorn.

About sums it up doesn't it

No tough decisions, all "just trust me it'll be just fiiiiiiine"

On the other hand the idea of government medalling with social media in any way and trying to somehow control it, also leaves me a little worried.

You're right to be worried. Imagine the government makes a law tomorrow outlawing gravity. "Ho ho ho" we all chortle "how stupid". But written into the law is that it is illegal for a person to submit to gravity. Do the authorities arrest everyone who submits to gravity? Of course not. But they now have the power to arrest anyone who submits to gravity that they don't like. This is the essential problem with catch-all laws. They allow governments to go after those they view as problem elements and enemies while the rest of the people get the message that they ought to be careful, not in terms of avoiding an unavoidable law, but in terms of not upsetting the government.

Who are the good ones now & why is it so hard to find them??

My MP is Clive Lewis (now shadow defence) and he does genuinely seem honest, principled and has integrity.

I've been following highlights from the Leadsom address on Twitter. She really is laying the ground for this going out to the party members, isn't she? And, behind them, the electorate (the thought of whom, I suppose, will influence some Conservative Party members).

It's the same ploy that worked well with the Leave campaign: key phrases that chime with deep concerns. You can almost construct the 'identity' of the fantasy voter, to whom this is aimed, behind this: someone deeply anxious, not succeeding very well under globalisation, wants to be given permission not to worry about the effects of Brexit, wants to be given permission not to demand any really firm answers about a Brexit deal.

I find it worrying, frankly. It worked splendidly in the Leave campaign. Is it still effective?

The 'unicorn-on-a-stick'' rhetorical strategies need to be gutted and emptied of their power. They're leading us (all) into trouble.

That Leadsom speech was just series of soundbites and twitter posts, wasn't it?

"We are a remarkable people, and we have so much more to give"

yeah, that's well considered policy, isn't it.

#wheresmyunicorn?

Oh, and yes, that whole speech has the grubby (putting it mildly) figerprints of Arron Banks all over it. It even sounded like it could have been Farage giving it. It's all faux-understanding.

Possibly the only upside is I'm not sure Leadsom will connect as well as Farage did with the non-Tory sectors, I don't think she can pull off the common touch, bloke in a pub, facade.

I find it worrying, frankly. It worked splendidly in the Leave campaign. Is it still effective?

I want to believe that it's less effective than it used to be, since the post-Brexit reality check. But it's still probably somewhat effective.

Let's banish the pessimists, she says.

Why don't you shows us your plan, Andrea?

Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft · 5m5 minutes ago
Suggestions if Theresa May today in the 2nd ballot gets 2/3rds of the MP's supporting her the others should stand down has some merit.

Except that 2/3 of Tory Mps were Remain and 1/3 Leave and that's looking how the split will go.

I still don't rule out that a Tory party split might really happen.

There has just been a 'March for Leadsom' in the last hour (It was like a demonstration but with people in suits and young tories in Leadsom tshirts - I don't think they really 'get it')

I like this:
Marina Hyde (@MarinaHyde)
July 7, 2016
“I want to speak to the markets,” says Andrea Leadsom, with the air of someone who imagines you can negotiate with gravity.

Andrew Sparrow in the Guardian
"that speech was so dire that it would be surprising if some of her MP supporters who watched it did not start having second thoughts."

ooh, and these:
— Chris Ship (@chrisshipitv)
July 7, 2016
That was not as billed a 'major speech on the economy' by @andrealeadsom. More a series of optimistic hopes and soundbites

— norman smith (@BBCNormanS)
July 7, 2016
So Leadsom pitch...higher pay, no austerity, better training, banish pessimism . The Land of Milk and Honey ???

Although Banks/TeamLoathsome will probably complain about that Norman Smith tweet. Luckily, there's really fuck all they can do about Marina Hyde's sarcasm.

well that speech went down like a lead balloon...

The BBC and ITV reporters don't think much of Leadsom's speech:

Andrew Sparrow
Buy shares in Michael Gove. On Tuesday night, after the results of the first round of the Conservative leadership election came out, it looked as if Andrea Leadsom was the overwhelming favourite to come second today - meaning that Gove would drop out, and Leadsom and Theresa May would be on the shortlist of two in the ballot of party members. It was very hard to see where Gove would find the votes to catch her up. But after that speech I’m not so sure - because that speech was so dire that it would be surprising if some of her MP supporters who watched it did not start having second thoughts.

Yesterday afternoon her team sent out an operational note to journalists saying she would be making “a major speech on the economy”. In the event, we got nothing of the sort. The problem was not that it was short, because it is not difficult to say something interesting and meaningful in a few hundred words. What was so awful was that it was trite - little more than a catalogue of slogans about optimism and Britain having a bright future. People who put themselves forward as a future prime minister normally have clear ideas of what they want to do. Leadsom had an opportunity to reveal her own ideas today, but the cupboard seemed empty.

It is not just me saying this. This is from ITV’s Chris Ship.
That was not as billed a 'major speech on the economy' by @andrealeadsom. More a series of optimistic hopes and soundbites

Still waiting for not only a plan, but tax returns from AL to be published.

She seems a bit ... ermmm.... airy, doesn't she?

“What do we want? Leadsom. When do we want it? Now.”

The video of the march is hilarious (though scary at the same time)

Business editor of The Times and a WSJ journalist also mocking her lack of understanding on twitter.

Video just gone on the bbc live feed....

(catch up BBC!)