The Westministenders Hunger Games continues. Boris still trying not to be outmanoevered.

[RedToothBrush]

Clearly Boris didn't get the memo, on when to quit the power games, even after Gove schooled him in the dark arts of the Tory Leadership....

So the Tory Smackdown rolls on whilst Corbyn STILL clings on. UKIP has now entered the race to make a challenge for who can make the biggest leadership contest shambles.

In The Blue Corner
May strikes fear into the hearts of EU citizens as she counts her bargaining chips.
Gove strikes fear into the hearts of humans, with his Martian twitch.
Loathsom strikes fear in the hearts of Britains by talking about babies brains.
Crabb strikes fear into the hearts of Torys by suggesting a plan that Corbyn might like. (and that beard doesn't help).
And Fox.
Well he just turned up.

Johnson is still waiting in the wings to stab Gove. He'd quite fancy a seat at the cabinet table too.
Osborne has gone quite again and we wait with baited breathe to see if he is the 'Charlie off Casualty' of the Tory Party (y'know whatever happens he somehow survives like a cockroach).

In The Red Corner
Corbyn apologies. So we know he's getting a bit desperate.
Will the Unions figure out something else to do other than sit with their head in hands.
Angela Eagle is still doing jellyfish impressions and hasn't found that backbone.
We STILL don't know who the fuck Owen Smith is?
Will Bliar's chicken's finally come home to roost?
The Cult of Momentum, rumbles on. We aren't quite sure who they actually vote for, but they seem to like their Dear Leader.
When will this country next have an opposition party?

Its kinda getting boring guys, we need some action now. End the Chicken Coup! The Tories are definitely out doing in the high drama stakes.

In the Purple Corner
Farage has gone! Hurrah. We hope only that he stays under that rock.
(Don't count on it. They'll wheel him out when they need publicity)
Will Leadsom be elected leader? Oh sorry, wrong party. I was getting confused for a second there.
Will they throw the cuckoo Carswell out? [:)]
Will they be able to find a less offensive leader than Farage who can unite them in their common goal of errrr..... yeah. That.
How long before one of their candidates has to apologise for something?

And I suppose I should ask, when will a50 be triggered....? And by whom?

All these questions and more.
Sense of humour compulsory. No experience necessary though

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1 Previous thread 1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2672388-Has-Boris-been-outmanoevered-Will-someone-please-tell-me-who-is-in-charge Previous thread 2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/a2673982-Have-Boris-and-Jeremy-been-stabbed-in-the-back-Please-can-we-have-some-leaders Previous thread 3

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2675432-Boris-outmaneovered-Et-tu-Gove-Corbyn-The-Westministenders-Hunger-Games-Continues? Previous thread 4

Oh its great news. But an embarrassment for the government.
Its one they will definitely want to sink without trace.

Re: Good MPs.
I am sure there are lots. There are over 600 MPs afterall. Its just that we hear about only a few of them.

Beyond my own local MP I think I would struggle to even name many outside the front benches.

My own MP as yet has done nothing to suggest he's one of the good ones. The previous MP in the neighbouring constituency was, in a back bench there to represent the area way, but she retired in 2015.

Mrslupo - I think names for projects are just wanky in a different way now, 20 years ago it would probably have had some ridiculous long name with a forced acronym.

Red - you've been doing an excellent and important job with these threads, thank you

Angela Eagle would take us to a new level of ridicule: a "frontrunner" who may well be deselected by her own local party.
What a ridiculous mess.
Labour have let the Tories get away with their careerists screwing up both sides of the referendum.

Brings me back to more of Blair's failings, which seem to be shared by too many UK politicians:
taking dramatic action without bothering to think of the likely consequences, or bothering to plan for them.
Bloody incompetent amateurs.

The ones who think more deeply, like Charles Kennedy and Robin Cook, are ridiculed.
How did politics get so dumbed down ?
How much is because of vile Murdoch and his constant poison ?

Different topic, that New Statesmen link was depressing:
"2014 study found that when it came to workers having children, there was a “fatherhood bonus” but a “motherhood penalty”

My local has possibly done more the neighbouring constituency than my own!

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam · 1h1 hour ago
Arron Banks confirms Leave EU were behind an email campaign showering Tory MPs with emails for Leadsom

So UKIP's largest donor is using his weight and the Leave.eu campaign to lobby another party on their leadership contest.

Momentum, why couldn't you have come up with a plan to mess another party's leadership?! Take lessons!

I'm sure momentum could have a nice rally about it, maybe make some banners, but I'd struggle to see them doing anything as proactive as banks is doing.

Leadsom's dodgy backers are far more important than her dodgy CV.
UKIP and the far right are trying not just to infiltrate the Tory Party, but to lead it. They are spraying money around, always worrying with the Greedy Party.

How did politics get so dumbed down ?

Spin doctors and soundbites.
Slick images.
They sell papers.
Twitter is 140 characters.
The cult of the celebrity.
Big Brother is more watchable than Newsnight.

Its all about what entertains. And yes, apathy.
"Why should I bother? Why should I give up my time for this?"
An inherently selfish society from the bottom to the top.

A lengthy analysis of why our mental health services are failing and what we can do to improve the situation = Not so much interest.

Plus UK culture has this weird undertone where you should not get ideas above your station. If you do have success, you should not be proud of it. You certainly should not show off about it. If you have success then you are fair game to bring you back down to everyone else's level. There is no appreciation of it and no celebration of it. Instead it is viewed as a betrayal of roots or the mark of snobbery. Rarely are people truly congratulated for it.

I think our national mentality is one that does not encourage people to try and enter a career to make the country better on the whole.

Going into politics for honest reasons is such a hiding to nothing.

Great - and greatly depressing - analysis red

Chilcot apparently highlights that not just Blair, but almost all officialdom - civil service, foreign office, MOD - had an unrealistic, inflated idea about the UK's power and influence.
Jingoism should not be a serious part of our decision making.

I'd add in the role of unaccountable power (Banks, Murdoch). And a part of that unaccountable power lies in the increasing accumulation of vast wealth in the hands of the very few.

It is shocking that Banks seems to be trying to buy power. His bank-rolling is pretty much buying a party, either by way of UKIP or stealthy-buying through backing Leadsom.

That's worrying.

Excellent analysis of why we are where we at. Leave politicians should take heed of the comment re unrealistic and inflated sense of the UK's power and influenced . IMO the whole making Britain great again comes under this.

I was please to see the Education Select Commitee reject Nicky Morgan's preferred candidate for head of Ofsted. It will be interesting in the current climate to see if she pushes ahead and does a Jetemy Hunt doing whatever she wants or does find someone else. She is making my blood boil nearly as much as Gove.

Another vote today for Tory leadership, is that correct?

Yes I think so GingerIvy.

Following a conversation with my Dad last night where he complained Carney is talking us into recession I found the Mail complaining about Carney. It was going to be the Mail or Telegraph as that's all he reads and doesn't do the Internet.

Delurking to say thanks for these threads, massively informative and good to know am not alone!

Ofsted's next head, Amanda Spielman, rejected by MPs

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36723828

Well, thank god, at least someone has some sanity left. It remains now to be seen what Nicky Morgan will do.

But it doesn't look like NM is listening. At least she's consistent in that regard.

"Ms Spielman is set to become chief inspector of England's schools and children's services at the end of 2016.
Education Secretary Nicky Morgan said she was the "best person" for the job.
Mrs Morgan wrote to the cross-party select committee, saying she was "surprised and disappointed" but remained "wholeheartedly in support of Amanda as the best person for this crucial role".

SugarPlumTree that Daily Mail article about Carney...

he should not be surprised if the new Tory leader starts looking for a Governor who truly believes in Britain and won’t try to engineer a recession.

I have no words. Like something out of Pravda.

Nick Boles has been forced to apologies for his tactical voting text to which IDS replied: "People with knives will end up stabbing themselves … I do think emails and texts like that are failing to smell the coffee."

And Theresa May responded in a statement:
I have been clear from the start: the party and the country deserve an open, honest, robust debate — and the next leader needs to have won a mandate to lead. So there should be no deals, no tactical voting and no coronation.

Nick Robinson is characterising the leadership battle as follows:
Fear = key factor in final Tory leadership ballot. Ardent leavers fear of stitch up under May -v- modernisers fear of coup led by Leadsom

Well that sounds promising for unity.

The voting for Tory Smackdown is earlier than on Tuesday. The result is due around 5pm.

Also today we have a delightful speech on the economy by AL at 9.30am (can't wait)
More interestingly there’s a one-hour debate in the Lords on options for a second EU referendum at 4pm which I am interested to see what feeling in the upper chamber is like on that.

With regard to comments I made yesterday about why there are few honest ones in parliament, I've got to be honest here in saying that I think the British mentality about success, particularly works against working class kids, and comes particularly from working class kids. There is a real irony in this when one of the problems here is that there is a lack of representation of working classes. I think in some respects its a self imposed barrier as well as one from other factors. Perhaps more needs to be done to challenge it from school age.

Also, the Sun does its best to sound innocent:
Yet Blair accepted dubious evidence of them without question, ignoring contradictions and warnings. He used them to sell the war to Parliament, the nation - and The Sun - with his silky oratory

Now apart from finding that utterly offensive to the public, I am sat slightly open mouthed and left wondering what the supposed purpose of The Sun is then. Journalism is precisely to critically assess information and present it to the public in the best way you see fit. The suggestion in that comment, is that they merely do as they are told by government and don't put a editorial line on articles. Just because you are a red top, it doesn't mean your critical assessment is removed. The bar might be different to the broadsheets but its still there. Its a very Orwellian response tbh. Its a complete abdication of responsibility and a total denial of what their job actually is!

Then again. It is The Sun. And responsibility and The Sun are not words you associate with each other. I guess an expectation of anything different is wishful thinking.

Re. the Daily Mail on Carney, they need someone to blame... We are lucky to have him :(

Anyone think we are in for a 'Winter of Discontent II'?

Absolutely Red. I think that's partly why art 50 is likely to be delayed till 2017 as well :-)

One good note is that advertising revenue has plummeted for all newspapers, especially the mail and express. Rothermere is not happy.

www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/07/former-culture-secretary-maria-miller-police-powers-to-tackle-online-abuse?CMP=twt_gu

Not sure how I feel about this.

Police must be given specific powers to tackle online abuse and the government should consider a levy on social media companies if they do not act more effectively on the problem, a Tory former minister has said.

The former culture secretary Maria Miller will use a Commons debate on Thursday to urge tougher measures in tackling abuse, which she says is occurring on an “unmanageable” scale.

Miller wants the government to set out specific new laws and to offer better training to police officers to show users that the internet is no longer “the wild west”.

On the one hand the idea sounds good in principle and I am sure it will be popular as online abuse is out of control.

On the other hand the idea of government medalling with social media in any way and trying to somehow control it, also leaves me a little worried. I don't necessarily think its a direct control, but more one which would be likely to fall into the 'unintended consequences' bracket and may threaten freedom of speech for reasonable discussion too.

I think something needs to be done to tackle the problem, but I worry about it when there is talk of social media being levied because of the possibly of it ending up being pay for access.

Whilst I appreciate the arguments fully in terms of how it might put people off becoming MPs, I also think it has the potential to undermine democracy in other ways too.

It makes me nervous.

Re: Carney it's the bad faith of the argument that leaves me gobsmacked - the economy is going to shit because he doesn't "believe" enough, because he's a self-serving foreigner and not a real patriot. The sort of paranoid nonsense you associate with Stalin or any totalitarian regime, really. (see how I niftily avoided Godwin point here)

They'll have a hard time convincing people that Brexit is not the root cause of all the shit coming our way, though. In fact I anticipate a certain degree of bitter satisfaction from seeing them squirm as they try to explain that "actually, it's more complicated than that". Complexity and nuance is not usually what they thrive on.