March? What march?

[Thefuturecouldbebright]

Can anyone else find much news coverage of this 'democratic march against democracy'? Twitter is full of info, but tune into the news channels and you would be forgiven for thinking it wasnt happening. Kind of has the ring of 'nobody cares' really doesnt it?

A number of marchers posting on twitter seem to think they are geographically being removed from Europe, although I guess you could forgive them given the odd name given to the march itself 'March for europe'

Why is it not 'March for E.U'? Isnt that what they are really there for? Anyone else as confused as I am?

Elements, I thought Denmark was already a democratic country?
Happy to be corrected if wrong, though.

mango you clearly missed the word 'unless' despite copying it and highlighting it. All the information for the Norway model is out there, including the cost they've negotiated, the amount of eu law they take on plus that free movement is included in the deal. Same with the Swiss model. So no, free and sovereign isn't what will happen under the Swiss or Norway models.

Hmm, the FTSE100 and 250 have started to slide again. Aviva, Standard Life and M&G are stopping their clients from withdrawing money.

What was that Leavers were saying about everything being absolutely fine?

I thought Denmark was already a democratic country?

Just thought I'd broaden the discussion a little, y'know, seeing as the EU is a big anti-democratic tyranny and all - ISTR some happy Leavers hoping that our triumphant departure would inspire more countries to escape the disastrous European project.

It's really, really not going to be fine. I can't believe anyone can even pretend to think it is, after this past week.

so what do you think, UK becomes a 3rd world style failed state
or takes a north korea style dictatorship route?

Those aren't the only two choices.

I don't think it will go as far as either of those, but I do think we're not going to come out of this with our nhs or education system in tact. And that saddens me greatly.

Those aren't the only two choices

well obviously!

I was just throwing out a couple of suggestions

what are people expecting?

what does 'It's really, really not going to be fine' mean to people?

what does 'It's really, really not going to be fine' mean to people?

Actually, it was in reply to Judy's post:

Hmm, the FTSE100 and 250 have started to slide again. Aviva, Standard Life and M&G are stopping their clients from withdrawing money.
What was that Leavers were saying about everything being absolutely fine?

I'm watching the news this week, watching our government turn into some some sort of clown show (or to quote Buzzfeed, a cross between between Downton Abbey and Game of Thrones), watching the pound plummet, and definitely not feeling "fine."

It's a mess - but it's OUR mess.

We will not own this mess forever though, it'll be someone else's mess soon enough

It's not just our mess. Brexit has far reaching implications for others and we will now have less influence over things that affect us.

Underthegreenwoodtree
yeah and isn't it just a great time to bury stuff and to pass off over hyped stuff as the result of brexit. Don't think for a second we all aren't being played.

Imbroglio I know. I was being facetious and silly.

Anyway I must bow out now, as I've just had a notice to say that I've used nearly my entire month's broad band allocation in one week! And also I'm not sure that all my online anger and frustration is very good for me.

I'm not giving up though.

My biggest fear, as a final thought, is that we will end up with leadsom as PM. I am steeling myself for this possibility, given the age and wealth profile, and tendency towards the hard right (see what ken Clarke said about them) of the 280,000 Tory party members. What a strange country we live in.

280,000 Tory party members.

It's mind-bending isn't it? We've voted to Leave because of the EU being "undemocratic", people exercising their right to free speech in criticising the result are "undemocratic", we're told the Leave vote is a victory for "real people" against "the elite".

But an unelected PM chosen by a a tiny proportion of the population, who as members of the Tory Party are very likely to be "the elite" - absolutely fine. And whatever the final arrangements said unelected PM makes to take us out of the EU are not to be scrutinised by our elected representatives in the Commons because that too would be "undemocratic".

Aargh I am supposed to be working - and I promised myself I would "bow out", but I can't let this past -

"Lots of people say for example that they will or won't vote for Jeremy Corbyn. Unless they happen to live in Islington, they have now power to vote for or against the next PM. They only get to say which party and local MP they want. "

It's not true - as a trade union member, you would get a vote on the leader of the Labour Party. Last year (GMB member) I was asked to choose between the four candidates - as it happens, I abstained because I didn't think any of them could win a GE. Anyway, the point is that you could have a say.

tiggy you're absolutely right, I get "caught up" in using a sort of shorthand when referring to party leaders becoming PM. I suppose I should have expanded my point, that normally when we vote for our MP (and based, one hopes, on their campaign and party manifesto rather than the colour of the rosette), it is with an awareness that the leader of the winning party will become PM - with all that entails in terms of who they are and where (they claim) they will be taking us as a nation (again see party manifesto). All taken with a massive pinch of salt of course.

Now the next PM, who they are and where they're taking us (apart from Away) is completely in the hands of the members of the Tory party, is it not?

I rarely ever vote for my local mp, but for the party who represents the country best in my view. I don't do this in local elections though, I vote more on a person by person basis. It's a slight failing of our electoral system really.

Even I've been guilty of calling Brown the PM no one elected.

implementing the mandate they got given

That's one of the things I'm grappling with and I'm not thinking too clearly at the moment and would appreciate your thoughts. IIRC the GE manifesto promised to hold this blasted referendum but did it also promise to act fully upon the result? Which then brings me to the next problem namely that in voting to Leave, there is no mandate apart from to Leave. In other words, whoever winds up in charge and wherever we are taken, it will be without a mandate?

really no mandate can be given even now about what Leave means.

We have voted for a pig in a poke.