March? What march?

[Thefuturecouldbebright]

Can anyone else find much news coverage of this 'democratic march against democracy'? Twitter is full of info, but tune into the news channels and you would be forgiven for thinking it wasnt happening. Kind of has the ring of 'nobody cares' really doesnt it?

A number of marchers posting on twitter seem to think they are geographically being removed from Europe, although I guess you could forgive them given the odd name given to the march itself 'March for europe'

Why is it not 'March for E.U'? Isnt that what they are really there for? Anyone else as confused as I am?

Yes, because if the best way for us to succeed outside of the Eu is to get more neoliberal than neoliberal thing we were rallying against then it's not a model that stacks up. Unless you're pro neo liberalism.

Liam Fox, leadsom, redwood, boles, raab, Gove, Hannah, fuller, etc etc (and the rest) ....the Tory brexiteers are the very definition of neo-liberal - that's why the Adam smith institute is so excited at the outcome. The real feat (and audacious con) was to harness the working class vote by using immigration-based arguments. Without that support, they would never have been able to get their ideas through, as they have always belonged to the relatively small 'Vulcan wing' of the Tory party.

It's as if the ovenden window has shifted so far to the right that it's now in another house (on a completely different street).

"Funding is funding, love."
That's a tautology and not remotely meaningful but confirmative of Queen's insecurity and lack of knowledge on the subject matter. A desperate attempt saying nothing more than "because I say so".

i.ytimg.com/vi/SSyejShjvh8/maxresdefault.jpg

"Because as she said most of the Brexit models were far more neo liberal than the current EU is, the EU after all espouses regulation of markets."
Of course.
But strangely enough, my local butcher who posts a stream of UKIP and anti EU posts posted an image recently upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/%22EUSSR%22_flag.svg/2000px-%22EUSSR%22_flag.svg.png

So obviously people who are passionately supporting Brexit range from those who think it's a socialist ddvli to those proclaiming they are the neo-liberal elite.

I agree with Small and others who can see the writing on the wall: The conservative government that is going to rule this country will change people's lives beyond recognition for decades to come. Very worrying.

So obviously people who are passionately supporting Brexit range from those who think it's a socialist ddvli to those proclaiming they are the neo-liberal elite

I suspect some people are going to be very disappointed with the outcome.

On a different note, has anyone seen any good referendum / Brexit caricatures?

Oh yes figment I suspect the Overton Window isn't even in the same orientation as it was either, let alone on the same street anymore. Moderate conservatives are finding themselves on the left side of that, middle grounders are now major lefties and labour supporters are dangerous lefties. People who hate conservatism are voting for it because they don't want conservatism. People who can see that it became a choice of which bad conservatism to pick are seen as uber conservatives, but pretty sure they were seen as socialists last fortnight. It's all gone massively off kilter.

Someone bring back the Monster Raving Loony Party. They may be the only ones capable of getting us out of this mess

I suggest you read Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klien, its very good on how the neo liberals have managed to get what they want.

I miss Spitting image. They would be having a field day now.

I agree with Small and others who can see the writing on the wall: The conservative government that is going to rule this country will change people's lives beyond recognition for decades to come. Very worrying.

Agreed, for all the talk of this being a win for the people, and one in the eye for the establishment etc, couldn't be further from the truth.

Over and over people keep using symptoms and a lot of leavers bought into that i.e that schools dont have places, because of migrants. Even though its a fact though low migrant places have the same problem and that migrants claim less than are taxed.

People just don't accept that this is years and years of both parties under investing. Shockingly they will not be moved from this belief, and because of this they have let the extreme tories in and looks like labour on edge of red-tory take over too.

Its not even under investment Breaking, the last Labour government did a lot to make up for the years of Tory make do and mend.

Talk to people in the NHS and the reason why its difficult to get seen is the fact that the social care budget has been slashed, lots of beds being taken up by people who would have been cared for at home, but there is now no provision for that so they stay in hospital.

There are a lot of reasons for all of the issues, but blaming immigrants as you've said is incorrect.

But blaming the immigrant is oh so satisfying. It's such a basic part of human psychology to unite by having a common enemy and scapegoating whatever caricature of a population has been actively 'othered' by those in power to distract from their own selfish enterprises.

We've always blamed immigrants though. All the way back to the Huguenots and probably before that. When all this dies down give it a few years and there'll be another group of outsiders to blame

x-post Strictly

blaming immigrants as you've said is incorrect.

But blaming the immigrant is oh so satisfying.

We've always blamed immigrants though.

At some point (I live in eternal hope) people may come to realise that 'immigrants!' were never the sole reason that 52% of those that voted, voted to Leave.

Yes, a proportion did, but the reasons for voting to leave were much more varied & nuanced than that.

But I suppose it's much easier to "unite by having a common enemy and scapegoating whatever caricature of a population has been actively 'othered'...to distract from their own selfish enterprises."

Mango, you can say it all you like, but lets face it the largest group of leave voters did so because of immigration. Its the no 1 reason we had the bloody referendum in the first place, because the Tory right were defecting to UKIP.

Its not even under investment Breaking, the last Labour government did a lot to make up for the years of Tory make do and mend

True, but they (Labour) get labeled as irresponsible with money when like you say they were in fact trying to play catch up.It was galling in last election to see all these parties falling over themselves to prove who was going to be toughest on spending!

The blaming of the mess the economy was in on Labour was a way of distracting the electorate from the fact that the tories had failed to anything to their friends in banking.

I suppose there is another way of thinking about it. After the Second World War, the post war settlement - NHS and housing mainly - was imposed not so much to reward people who had fought for their country but more because of fear of communism. And the same post war settlement collapsed because communism collapsed. There was no longer anything for the other side to fear, leading to rampant neoliberalism. Effectively, one side got off the see saw, and it all went pear shaped.

Bringing this back to our situation, I wonder whether the new government will be forced to improve the lives of those in deprived areas to some extent not out of a desire to do what is right but rather out of fear of a hard right/fascist backlash.

I don't know how bad things have to get to reach this point though, and I also don't see any space in this analysis (if that's not too pompous a word!) for the 'left', which is a depressing thought.

I don't think the post war settlement came about because of communism, it was a reaction to the failure of Lloyd George's " A country fit for heroes to live in" so many had suffered between the wars that the collective push to win the war, was turned into a collective push to make lives better. Its the principal reason Churchill lost, he was the candidate for the status quo, Atlee was the candidate for change.

Neo liberalism grew in the 1970s and 80s, before the fall of communism, I don't think the two are really intertwined

The Government won't have to do anything to make things better, look at what it is doing with redrawing boundaries, it will be difficult for another party to win.

This every vote counts referendum will not be replayed, and the cracks in society will be forgotten as the new right shape the economy of the UK in their own mould.

I get you figment. It's like some people have realised the see saw is actually on the edge of a cliff and some need to scuttle back up to equalise it before the entire thing crashes into the abyss. But are enough going to realise in time to do that? Will it require an earthquake elsewhere to judder it first? It feels like the left are just stuck shouting 'scramble up, scramble up' and just being told to pipe down because it's their fault as they got off the see saw in the first place.

Yes, a proportion did, but the reasons for voting to leave were much more varied & nuanced than that

I am sure the reasons were much more nuanced than that.

Has there been a reliable survey of Leave voters which has pin pointed the main reasons? And which ones were the most important to them?

Small, I find your posts incredibly informed and informative. Do you know anything at all about the social and political situation in Germany? We are thinking about moving back after having lived in the UK for a long time so I have lost touch with most things German. How does Germany compare in terms of neo-liberal v social democracy? Apologies if this is a bit of a random question.

I'm less informed on Germany than the UK sadly.

I do admire the way that many of their big firms work with all of the stakeholders in decision making. Unions are represented at board level even with the big PLCs.

There are tensions there too though because of immigration and refugees.

the Tory right were defecting to UKIP.

Not just the Tory right by a long shot.
The traditional labour vote have been defecting in droves to UKIP, too.