March? What march?

[Thefuturecouldbebright]

Can anyone else find much news coverage of this 'democratic march against democracy'? Twitter is full of info, but tune into the news channels and you would be forgiven for thinking it wasnt happening. Kind of has the ring of 'nobody cares' really doesnt it?

A number of marchers posting on twitter seem to think they are geographically being removed from Europe, although I guess you could forgive them given the odd name given to the march itself 'March for europe'

Why is it not 'March for E.U'? Isnt that what they are really there for? Anyone else as confused as I am?

Face it, Leavers: you were played, you were pawns, you were lied to and manipulated. Referenda are an atrocious idea anyway - we elect on a mandate and that's what happens - the government shouldn't be asking everyone what they think every two minutes, and if what they think is bollocks, the government shouldn't follow up on an advisory referendum!

See, this is the kind of patronising tripe that reduces the Leavers to small-minded thickos. How about this instead: We fully understand the grasping nature of politicians and could quite get our heads around the possibility that Boris doesn't really have the interests of the Great Unwashed at heart (although I suspect he does more than his Bullingdon Club chums). Point is we don't really care. Neither do we care that we cannot sometimes answer - in our own words - some of the tougher economic questions regarding a Brexit future (neither can you, as it happens).

What we wanted was to be listened to over mass immigration and issues of sovereignty; we were sick of the unaccountability of a very rich and faceless monolith that we could do nothing about. I'm sorry you feel that this amounts to 'bollocks' because it proves yet again that those 'others' you have to rub alongside with every day are considered stupid, undiscerning; not worthy of being listened to.

Oh whathat a Croc. This wasn't a class issue.

I'll take you to my native Hartlepool (born Cameron hospital) and get you to talk to people, they blame immigration, because it's been blamed for everything. There isn't any fucking immigration in Hartlepool, it's 97.5 % white British. But it's what thy blame, and the EU is to blame for immigration. So vote out. Fuck the fact that the EU has done a lot for the area.

Fuck the fact that they have just been duped by an elite into voting to take us our of the thing that held them back from their hayekian dreamland.

No this was about getting a voice, well you got it, you used it, do you really want to face the concequences. The more it goes on and liberal.left wingers like me are told we just don't understand, despite personal experience, that it's OK for us that we are comfortable, we will lose the will to fight your corner.

Cause believe it or not, doing our dammed best to keep the neoliberalism that is headed our way at bay is the best way to fight the corner of he working class. And at the minute they are celebrating.

we were sick of the unaccountability of a very rich and faceless monolith that we could do nothing about.

Best of luck with that.

Yeah. You realise you've just voted for them in their purest form right?

Smallfox, I cannot work you out. You must see that 330,000 migrants last year is good for nobody except those whose children won't be crammed into failing schools (that's if they can find a place at all) or whose health is paid for privately and for whom housing will never be an issue. How is it that you are in this kind of denial?

...and please do tell me who these 'independent economic institutions' are.

Oh whathat a Croc. This wasn't a class issue.

Yes, a large part of it was.

The more that that is minimised, the worse the divide gets.

Acknowledge, listen, understand.

You still refuse point blank to see that class is a HUGE issue.
It doesn't matter if you think that or not, obviously - but if the politicians are shutting their ears still, just like you are, then it DOES matter.

Remain didn't 'win' because it was never just about the economy.

It was about the ignored & forgotten millions as well as the millions who voted against* the EU* as an institution.

You must see that 330,000 migrants last year

'Only 184,000' of that is net EU migration. The rest is non EU. Oh - and a lot of Brits have gone abroad.

Our population is 60 million.

330k immigrants are not solely EU. EU contributes half. That other half we've had total control over. We have a points system for them. Non EU migration has come down but not by much. Granted EU migration has increased a lot. EU migration also includes ROI who thanks to CTA agreements will still have free movement of people rights and account for about 12% of the figure. In the event we did put a 100k on immigration, about 25% of that would have to be apportioned to ROI and even then the lack of other EU migrants may see that figure increase.

Yes, there are issues surrounding immigration which don't help with an already overloaded and under supported system. But the reality is were unlikely to ever see a low cap on immigration.

^^ Round we go again!

Those intelligent, selfless marchers being spectacular dicks

It was about the ignored & forgotten millions as well as the millions who voted against the EU as an institution

Lots of reasons to vote against Remain in this referendum.

It is a shame that it took this vote to get many people's voices heard.

Have people shot themselves in the foot with this vote?

Maybe we should address the issues on towns which have had a lot of immigration and address the housing issues (such as rent issues, HMOs, maximising occupancy levels), looking at the pay people are paid, ensuring affordable housing is available, investing in the NHS, school places etc.

But whenever these things were mentioned, Cameron et al dismissed them and jeered at Corbyn whenever he mentioned them. Cameron has a lot to blame for the dismissal of people at PMQs and with austerity.

soren we are not of the same political leaning I'm guessing but I completely agree. I wish there were more politicians like Corbyn out there trying to keep the others in check or at least someone backing him up a bit more.

Oh god, if you voted us out of the EU to get your dissatisfaction heard you wasted your vote.

Let me repeat, you have just allowed the very conservative side of the Conservative party to have 4 years of government. They will not sit and listen to people in forgotten Northern towns who don't vote for them anyway, they will continue to bear the brunt of austerity.

If we don't get full access to the EU market and Nissan leaves Sunderland, the whole of the North will suffer. The working class will suffer when their rights protected by the EU are brunt on the bonfire of regulations.

Funding from the EU will not be replaced in these regions by a UK government trying to sort out the mess brought by Brexit. Far more likely is that public services will be slashed again, or some of them privatised completely.

You voted in an in out vote about the EU about issues that have been ongoing since the 1970s and are NATIONAL issues not EU ones. You voted in an in out EU referendum about issues that frankly have been going on for a lot longer than that.

The promises of the land of milk and honey will change to be "jam tomorrow" and the working class will bear the brunt more than they have done already. Things can and will get worse.

Yet the EU gets the blame.

smallfox Can you not see beyond the next 4 years?? Do you not think it is worth it if things are better in the end?

Do you not think it is worth it if things are better in the end

if

And that's the question. I think a lot of people have taken a massive leap of faith.

I also think that a lot of people have been let down by the very people who they put their faith in.

Do you not think it is worth it if things are better in the end?

I think, caitlin, you've put your finger on the crux of the difference between moderate Remain and Leave voters. It's the if in that sentence . I really hope you're right in your optimism for the future.

(Although if the next 4 years go to shit, "better in the end" may be too late for many ).

But the next 4 years are the crucial bit. You leavers can't explain to me how or why things might be better, you just make platitudes about taking back control or other trade deals.

Once the regulations are gone they won't be made again, there will be economic shocks used to make excuses for the sell off of services.

Believe me, if I thought things would be better outside the EU I'd have gone that way, I really don't see it happening. The next decade will be one of uncertainty which will effect the one following that.

Oh god, if you voted us out of the EU to get your dissatisfaction heard you wasted your vote.

I, personally, didn't.
But to dismiss out of hand the millions that did is a fool's game.

I was one of the Leavers who voted against the EU as an institution.
I was one of the Leap-of-Faithers.
I believe that we will be better off out of it.

One good way of getting inward migration down is by ensuring that the UK, already almost the most deregulated employment law system in the developed world, becomes even crapper and more insecure, so that nobody wants to come here - it's called the race to the bottom and the Tories have been in it for a long time. (Your arch enemy the EU btw had never had any control over wage rates, which were entirely a matter for member states).

Neither do we care that we cannot sometimes answer - in our own words - some of the tougher economic questions regarding a Brexit future (neither can you, as it happens).

Remain voters don't need to, as they're not advocating it. Why cannot Leave voters get their heads round that simple fact?

What we wanted was to be listened to over mass immigration and issues of sovereignty; we were sick of the unaccountability of a very rich and faceless monolith that we could do nothing about

But why did you think that a leave vote would achieve that? It was always perfectly clear that leaving the EU would in itself make little or no difference to immigration. And it doesn't account for the number of areas where immigration has very little effect voting Leave.

The EU is just as accountable as Parliament - ever noticed those things called elections?

Believe me, if I thought things would be better outside the EU I'd have gone that way but I didn't and that surely means that you lot ought not to have either

Oh Queen, see you are a perfect example of a brexiteer who doesn't "get" democracy, just over half the population voted one way, just under voted another, to not listen to the views of that other half is not democratic.

It certainly isn't when the leave camp can't decide on what they want because it was given as a panacea to all of the ills of the UK, to suit all needs, which it certainly isn't.

Yy smallfox.