Exactly one week on - happy 'leavers' how are we all feeling?

[Surferjet]

Wow what a week
I'm still walking on air & soooooo happy we're leaving, just want A50 triggered ASAP!

m.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/eu-massively-impressed-by-the-way-britains-handling-this-20160626109849

*Change is not a bad thing

It depends on what change. WW1 was a change. I'm pretty sure WW2 was also.*

WW1:

League of Nations: raised the ideal of international cooperation; was the forerunner of the UN.

14 Points of Woodrow Wilson: included the right of nations to self-determination and an end to Empire building.

Greater acceptance of women: the war, gave an opportunity for women to take on previously men only jobs & proved a significant factor in giving women the vote in 1919; helped to change social attitudes towards women for ever.

Greater respect for workers: greater importance given to the welfare of munitions workers, trade unions gained in acceptance. Several gains for the poorest in society, for eg when landlords pushed up rents, there was a popular backlash against the war profiteers; the first rent control act was implemented temporarily 1915, permanently in 1920.

WW2:

Technological breakthroughs: Aviation, computers, medicine, founding of United Nations, economy growth, numerous positive societal changes.

Aren't there voting fraud suspicions? According to MN there are about 5 leavers and 10 remainders afaiw

The same accusations here levied that anyone who dares to suggest any country is better off out must be far right xenophobes

No, its that they ARE already far right xenophobes! Le Pen is a facist, they are calling for a vote, which they won't get. German, dutch and belgian far right parties are calling for a vote.

You don't know what you are talking about, in the slightest. But then its no suprise that insular Leave voters don't know anything about European politics!

Mango, are you advocating WW3?

"The same accusations here levied that anyone who dares to suggest any country is better off out must be far right xenophobes"

so much easier to wail about that than actually explain why a country (specifically this one) is better off out.

Pointless argument - if this is what you believe, why don't you agree to abide by the result of the 1973 one in which we voted to join?

Good point well made.

I'd counter that with it being because we voted to join a free trade agreement.

This article in The Telegraph in 2009 stating the leading conservatives view on the Lisbon Treaty makes for interesting reading in today's situation!

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/6496336/Lisbon-Treaty-more-of-Britains-powers-surrendered-to-Brussels.html

Exactly Joysmum If the Eu were not pushing for an undemocratic federal autocratic state then I'm sure the UK would have stayed in.

But democracy is important to this country. We probably all have living memory of people who fought for it. Most of the main players in the EU are very late comers to the concept of democracy, it's simply not a strong cultural ethos for them. Their history equates autocracy with strong rule and effective governance.

And they are partly right. It does give strong governance, but it ignores opposition. Hence, their inability to offer a compromise to DC earlier this year. It was do it our way or fuck off.

And now we're saying we will fuck off. Although I think it all may be diluted eventually in a negotiated agreement.

Mango, are you advocating WW3?

What a marvellous extrapolation from my listing the positive changes as a result from the atrocity of war, which was in direct response to a poster insinuating that those wars had no positive outcome!

How absurd!

I'm still absolutely delighted! I know loads of happy leavers and am looking forward to is exiting in a calm and timely fashion.

Then tell us that we should be grateful to nazis for their death doctors' for tuberculosis remedy

Were soldiers even allowed the vote before WW1? I'm sure votes for all men didn't kick in until after WW1. We were quite happy to send them off to fight & die but didn't think they were worthy of voting.

According to Gove, no triggering until 2017 anyway.

Then tell us that we should be grateful to nazis for their death doctors' for tuberculosis remedy

Not entirely sure what your agenda is Stop, but it would help if you just stated it outright rather than talking in some sort of code.

MangoMoon

I wouldn't call those 'positive outcomes' - some of that was necessity and some of it is technology that was merely sped up Cold War did wonders for technological advancement. Doesn't mean I want it back!

Gove had just said he will end freedom of movement

Gove could promise the much sought after unicorns for all its worth- he's playing a game cooked up by him and Johnson to make damn sure they both avoid having to actually take any responsibility- he's doing his best to ensure he doesn't get elected.

Snowbells, The jet engine was invented as a direct outcome of WW2.

The computer was invented as a direct outcome of WW2.

Numerous advances in medicine are always a direct positive outcome of any war.

MangoMoon

DH's ancestors were involved with the jet engine you talk about so much.

Like with all things technology, the same thing could have been invented further down the line. And I refer you to Stop's comment, I think you need to address that, too.

Were the millions of deaths in the two wars worth creating the jet engine 10 years earlier? No.

So is our happy Brexit slogan now 'hey, this could be almost as beneficial as the World Wars'? I am overwhelmed yet again with the excellent visions the Leavers have for us all.

Again, I have not once said war is good.

I pointed out the positives that came out of the two wars that you brought into the discussion.

At no point did I say or infer that anything is worth any deaths, let alone millions of deaths and life changing injuries.

Goes well with "hey, it's all good- the sky hasn't fallen, yet"

I am overwhelmed yet again with the excellent visions the Leavers have for us all.

Likewise, I am once again overwhelmed by how a proportion of 'Remainers' seem incapable of reading/quoting anything without applying a heavy dose of their own spin & agenda dripped all over it.

Not entirely sure what your agenda is Stop, but it would help if you just stated it outright rather than talking in some sort of code.
You calculate your benefits from previous wars.
What kind of person would do that? I'm sorry if you see any lode or agenda here

*code

I think "happy leavers" is easily transplanted with "delusional leavers".

"Why is Brexit good?"
"Well, it hasn't led directly to the apocalypse so it's totally successful."
"What about how shit it's made everything?"
"Well, obviously it was always going to make things really shit for a few years. But in the end, they might not be quite as shit though of course we can't guarantee that because we never actually thought what might happen if we voted out. We just thought it would be fun."