Exactly one week on - happy 'leavers' how are we all feeling?

[Surferjet]

Wow what a week
I'm still walking on air & soooooo happy we're leaving, just want A50 triggered ASAP!

I could have sworn Boris mentioned bananas in his campaign.

I see, that's the one where you have accept all the free-movement of people and stuff, EU regulations, pay into the EU (almost certainly without the rebate), but have absolutely no say whatsoever in how the EU is run

What say in how the EU is run?

Our pro EU prime minister wasn't happy with the rules imposed on us in the current EU so he tried and failed to renegotiate before the referendum.

That's what you're trying to protect, it's a joke!

Instead the Norway style agreement would give us the freedom to join non-eu trade blocks and negotiate with faster growing emerging world economies.

The potential growth outside of the EU is far greater than if we remain shackled within it.

He did think we exported Chocolate cake.

a democratic referendum result stands even when you don't like the outcome - that's democracy.

Pointless argument - if this is what you believe, why don't you agree to abide by the result of the 1973 one in which we voted to join?

Yeah, the main thrust of the Leave campaign was banana-based wasn't it? So I certainly wasn't aware of any other arguments put forward and I still remain convinced that bananas are the only point of contention. I never guessed the Leave voters were thinking of anything but bananas - however, now all the great things about leaving the EU have been listed in this thread I completely understand the Leave argument...oh wait, as well as the silence on bananas, none of the Leave voters on this thread have come up with anything more positive than 'it might be better in five years time but we don't know yet'.

Instead the Norway style agreement would give us the freedom to

Does Norway pay money to the EU?

I thought we didn't want to pay money to the EU.

If talks with the EU don't reach a deal before Brexit takes effect, then trade would default to World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules.

The UK could set our own tariffs for the EU, but they must apply to all 160 or so WTO members unless we have a PTA (Preferential Trade Agreement) with them.
So they would apply tariffs to us in turn.

Getting trade deals typically takes 5-10 years. Some businesses have only waited 5 days before cutting UK jobs and stopping investment.
They are motivated only by profits, not by dreams of a Fresh Start.

The EU’s Common External Tariffs would apply to all our exports to it.
For some products that's 2.5%, but it's 10% on cars, much higher for agricultural products.

Does anyone grow bananas the EU?

Pointless argument - if this is what you believe, why don't you agree to abide by the result of the 1973 one in which we voted to join?

Good point well made.

I'd counter that with it being because we voted to join a free trade agreement.

This article in The Telegraph in 2009 stating the leading conservatives view on the Lisbon Treaty makes for interesting reading in today's situation!

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/6496336/Lisbon-Treaty-more-of-Britains-powers-surrendered-to-Brussels.html

Boris on bananas

I thought we didn't want to pay money to the EU

Depends on your point of view. As I said, there are an infinite number of variables in people's views as to what they want and what they will compromise on to get it.

None of us can presume to speak for all and only surmise what others think. When the debate as to what comes meek properly starts, we'll have a better idea as to what the majority view is the biggest issues.

When the debate as to what comes meek properly starts, we'll have a better idea as to what the majority view is the biggest issues

I wonder if those negotiating truly understand what the big issues are and what the lines in the sand are? How in touch are they with people?

Given my typo, it looks like I'm not capable of understanding

Who truly is capable of understanding everything fully even for general elections. All I know is it's my mission to challenge those who'd prefer to give up any chance of a free trade agreement in exchange for controls over our borders and increased sovereignty. If people still disagree despite understanding then that's different to not understanding the issues and refusing to understand an opposing viewpoint.

Fundamental issue for negotiators is that the UK needs Bank Passporting, or the City of London collapses.
The City provides the UK with a significant amount of its tax revenue - losing this means Austerity II.

More significantly (together with big business) it provides the Tory Party with a large amount of its funding.

Unless Murdoch & co are willing to bankroll the Tories, then those who voted mainly to reduce EU immigration are going to see this still unchanged.
The Tory party would do whatever is needed to retain Bank Passporting.
Or it’ll cease to exist as a major party after the funding stops.

Whatever happens, either those who prioritise stopping immigration, or those who prioritise the economy are going to be disappointed.
Only those who voted primarily on sovereignty / Magna Carta issues stand a reasonable chance of having won what they wanted.

Just watch how many other countries push for a referendum!

You mean the far right parties that you really do not want even as your 'embarrassing uncle'?!?

I must say I have never felt less able to trust 'our leaders' since from the start of this sorry mess they have shown us exactly what a bunch of opportunistic, backstabbing, mendacious, expedient chancers they are. I know there are many decent politicians doing a good job but they're not the ones manoeuvring themselves into the limelight with lies, betrayals and about turns.

"a democratic referendum result stands even when you don't like the outcome - that's democracy"

No it doesn't its not legally binding, so it isn't "shut up and get on with it" with such a small majority and with no clear idea what happens if we leave another vote could happen, or MPs choose what happens next.

Also in a real democracy, votes have to have a significant majority, which you don't in order to stand. You can't have 4 % either way, its too small, especially when it appears a significant majority of one side were not voting on the issue at hand.

"a democratic referendum result stands even when you don't like the outcome - that's democracy"

If only you actually had a democracy!

You mean the far right parties that you really do not want even as your 'embarrassing uncle'?!?

The same accusations here levied that anyone who dares to suggest any country is better off out must be far right xenophobes.

I'm sure they'll get used to it too.

Nope, won't have to.

What the leave voteres will have to get used to is that your spurious reasons for leaving have caused significant damage to the country and that actually you won't get what you want.

If we leave we'll get brexit lite, EEA style deal, anything else will be disastrous.

The clowns have dug themselves into a hole, and all indications are they are going to keep digging.

Investment into the UK abruptly stopped last Friday. Uncertainty is a killer for growth and investment. Carney choose his words very carefully yesterday - but the underlying message: this is as bad as was forecast. Official data will start to reflect this in the coming weeks. Yes it will affect London first, but will soon affect all.

We will not invoke article 50.

One issue is that 'leave' was undefined. It was all things to all people. Any possible deal will piss most leavers off.

The other issue is there no way to leave without causing short-term economic chaos. The incumbent government would be toast.

Change is not a bad thing

It depends on what change. WW1 was a change. I'm pretty sure WW2 was also. As we already know, Leavers don't listen to experts. Their decisions are not based on reason (otherwise, they'd listen to experts, right?).

It's mind-boggling how Leavers say they look forward to this "bright future", when they don't even know how to get there. Like I look forward to my Euromillions (oh, wait... is that gonna be taken from us, too?) win at some point, although I don't even buy the tickets.

So people voted "Leave". Yet, they don't know how to leave and what the impact will be. Yes, it should be sorted out by a team on crack (and I do think you need a bit of that illegal stuff to even contemplate Brexit)... but at the same time, the motto of the campaign was "take control". All the 52% did was draw a cross on a piece of paper, and now, they want someone to sort out the mess. Leavers are not too different from Cameron or BoJo.

Oh, you now say... that is not your responsibility, but for the government to sort out? Well, I thought you wanted to "take control"... so do it, and sort the shit out yourself!!!

I wonder what would happen, if those Leavers were told that extricating the UK from the EU is impossible without hurting a LOT of people, and taking Britain back to the iron age. Would they still be happy to go through with it?!?

And what was so "great" about Britain? Let me give you a little history lesson. For centuries, "Great Britain" prospered by exploiting other countries. People of Britain killed people, tortured and enslaved them. Britain took away their land and made them second class citizens in their own home (not too different from the Third Reich now, isn't it).

But no, history lessons in the UK focus on what's and great about Britain... not the "what have we done!". Forget about "winning two world wars". Britain didn't win them on its own, you know. Britain had massive help from other countries (that's why they were called "world wars") - some of which you are now trying to extricate yourself from. You used soldiers from the Commonwealth, and it's pretty clear you wouldn't have won the second war without the U.S. either. Britain needed other countries. Britain could never go it alone. THAT is the real history of Britain. Not so glorious now, isn't it!

So which Britain do you want to go back to? That murderous British Empire? Well, unfortunately, Britain is now only an island nation, while other countries form unions to weather the storm that will soon rise from the east, once China and India overtake us. They form unions, so that they can protect their citizens, their businesses from not counting anymore in this globalized world. For now, let businesses leave this tiny isle of ours, and take jobs to the EU - that's the least we can do, after all the mess we have caused. We'll suffer silently, with 52% dreaming of a utopia that 48% will think of as dystopia.

But yeah, feel happy. Put up some bunting. Wave your union jack and act like it's the Queen's birthday all over again.

Gove had just said he will end freedom of movement. Clearly he isn't going for the Brexit-lite approach, he wants to do something much more drastic.

He will invoke Article 50 if he takes power, I am sure of it. He is a man who genuinely doesn't care what damage he inflicts in pursuing his vision. He will choose disaster. And my fear is that this will all be cough and won on immigration and unless we can engage with people's fears and anxieties in a meaningful and productive way then all a great number of people will hear is 'the end of freedom of movement' and they will follow him willingly out of the single market with all the consequences that will ensue from that.

Gove hasn't got a good track record of listening to expert advice if those experts disagree with his vision.

Great post SnowBells