Remain voters who have changed their minds

[Thefuturecouldbebright]

Ok, I expect to get pulled apart like brisket here, but... I havent seen anyone raise this question yet.

Is there anyone here, who voted remain, who has now changed their stance in the other direction? Especially now given the petulant tit for tat behaviour of the EU dictator otherwise known as Juncker? (Among others)

I am not asking to go round in circles talking about the falling pound/markets etc, as that has been done to death, I am just generally interested to see if anyone has swung the other way.

I voted Remain and would again.

I am a Brit living on the continent, and even if the UK economy recovers and thrives quickly (which would be to my advantage as I have investments and financial interests in the UK) being out of the EU will still be bad for me

I now face years of uncertainty re: my status here, whether I should be applying for dual citizenship etc.

The company I work for relies on immigration from the UK to the continent, so bad for the company.

And if the UK goes on to thrive, it is going to validate all the far right European parties who are the main voices for breaking up the EU altogether. I shudder to think where we'll end up if they end up in power.

Almost everyone I know in the UK voted Remain, and I haven't heard a single person express regret about that. Quite the opposite.

There are so many repercussions to leaving the EU that barely seem to have had any public discussion. Just to take one example, at the moment a British school-leaver can go to university anywhere in the EU for the same fees as local students, which in most cases are very low, nothing like the debt-inducing costs of UK universities. That's an amazing privilege. And it'll be gone. The study and work and travel opportunities of the next generation have just been cut off at the knees.

The vast majority of my family & friends voted 'on balance'.

This meant that we could see pluses and minuses for both sides so it more a case of how you weighted the things most important to you.

For those that voted remain, they didn't vote remain as a ringing endorsement for the EU! Nobody I know is happy with the EU in its current form and would have preferred reform of our place within the if Cameron had been able to get that. They fear the continuing move towards closer integration and see that despite being in the EU, we have little sway over policy anyway and that staying meant we'd be pushed towards further integration against our will. However for them they feared even more than this the shorter and medium term affects of leaving.

As things stand, very few of those I know who voted remain are devastated because it was an on balance decision, but are (like me who voted to leave) anxious to see what the majority view will be about what comes next.

I was a somewhat reluctant Remainer but there was nothing in the Leave campaign that persuaded me.

I think immigration is good for the country, and that the problems blamed on immigrants are a) problems that would exist anyway and b) things that our governments have had chances to solve and haven't. And either way, did anyone actually promise to reduce immigration?

All I heard was the word 'control'. We're going to control immigration. We want to control our borders. We're going to be back in control. We want control over the control. Let's control stuff. Let's make Britain great again by being in control.

They kept talking about control but the general public put our own meaning on what that actually meant. And it's clear now that when the Brexiters talked about wanting control, they actually meant they wanted control for themselves.

I'm not the EU's biggest fan, but I have no regrets about voting remain. Especially now it seems that the only plan was having our cake and eating it too.

Yes agree with "taking control". These are the same people who winge about the "nanny state" usually when it benefits more vulnerable people

So they have now handed over complete control to an austerity obsessed government, soon to have an unelected PM.

Thefuturecouldbebright

To go back to the veto issue, this website explains it quite neatly. Perhaps in a less unbiased way than Business for Britain (pro leave).

7 times out of 10, the matter has been thrashed out to the agreement of all countries before it even gets to the vote, so that all 28 member states agree.

I like the idea that either 16 or 21 out of the 28 member states (57% or 75%) have to agree, plus member states representing 65% of the EU population have to agree - it seems more democratic than 51.9% of a 72.2% voter turnout.

But then I've always appreciated irony.

But I would love the city to lose passorting rights on financial services, as that would damage the city which in the long term is a good thing for ordinary people who get swept up in the city culture.

^^^ THIS is why the question of EU membership should never have been put to a public vote.

THIS is why the question of EU membership should never have been put to a public vote

No, this is why it's important that you and the rest of us who do understand how vital it is actually explain why but also are grown up enough to agree with each other for the best way forwards now the vote has taken place. We outnumber those with that view anyway so I have more faith in the majority than you do.

Joysmum

I don't agree. The complexity of the issues and the inability of either side to generate an accurate and factual campaign to allow voters to make an informed decision is why it should not have been to put to a public vote.

Too many people are entrenched in polarised views, you're not going to be able to explain the repercussions of the decisions that have been made or will need to be made to many - and that includes both sides.

Joys - It shouldn't be necessary to explain to people why it is a terrible idea to shoot oneself in the foot to take revenge from a problem toenail.

If people are so clueless that they actually need to be told that their country's economic welfare depends on London's hard-earned position as #1 financial centre in the world, no amount of explaining is likely to help.

We outnumber those with that view anyway so I have more faith in the majority than you do.

I hear this so often - the majority, democracy etc etc. But what does that actually mean? "What is democracy?" Is one of those questions like "What is justice?" and there will have been doctoral theses written on the subject. We live in a country with a Parliamentary system of representative democracy; we vote periodically and the FPTP system, while undeniably flawed, does allow for a government and an opposition, so opposing views are continually heard. Plus - and crucially - if you come to regret your vote in the light of events, you regularly have the opportunity to change your mind. (Don't forget, for example, that Hitler was democratically elected in the 1930s and then changed the laws thereafter) We have been asked a simple question, without nuance or details of what that means. It's like asking you if you want to sell your house - the answer may well be yes if you would get £10 million, but no if you'd only get £10,000. And you would want to know where else you could live etc etc.

Remember too that people could vote Leave for radically different reasons. You may take a far left view that it is an evil capitalist institution that isn't for the workers....or a far right view that it's a socialist closed shop that stands in the way of capitalist progress. And all sorts of views in between. So, really, there has to be a further vote of some sort - hopefully a general election - for people to have some say on political direction.

This poll suggests 7% Leavers now regret, 3% Remainers now regret.

CFSKate Not sure the maths is right in that report though - I make 7% of 17,410,742 around 1.2 million, not 2.3 million?

GoudyStout - I can't face doing the maths but this earlier article says

A total of seven per cent said they wished they had not voted to quit the EU, equal to around 1,130,000 people. A total of four per cent said they regretted voting Remain, equal to around 696,000 people.

Now this is an earlier article, so presumably it's an earlier poll, and today's article is a later poll?

Hear hear Natalia

CFSKate yes, different polls but with similar results. It cuts the Leave majority down to just a few hundred thousand.

"A total of seven per cent said they wished they had not voted to quit the EU, equal to around 1,130,000 people. A total of four per cent said they regretted voting Remain, equal to around 696,000 people."

And you thought you can trust Daily Fail for math insight?

If.... 7% x Leave voters = 1,130,000
.... then Leave voters = 1,130,000 / 7% = 16,142,857

And if 4% x Remain voters = 696,000
.... then Remain voters = 17,400,000

So, more people voted Remain than Leave?

Uhhhh....I said I couldn't face the maths!

So what is the right information, from both polls?

Are there two polls? Or is there just one poll which Daily Mail wasn't quite smart enough to understand?

I think DM switched numbers of Leave and Remain voters, and changed Remain regretters from 3% to 4%. Figures according to the research quoted in The Independent:

Leave voters = 17,410,742
7% regrets their choice >> 17,410,742 x 7% = 1,218,752 Leavers regret their votes.

Remain voters = 16,141,241
3% regrets their choice >> 16,141,241 x 3% = 484,237 Remainers regret their votes.

So Remainers who regret their votes are about 1/3 as much as Leavers who regret their votes.

Two polls - Survation for Mail on Sunday and Opinium:

Survation: Tables here

Age split is interesting: younger voters aged 18-34 regretted Leave more (14.9%) than older voters 55+ (2.9%). In total 7.1% regretted Leave vote.

4.4% regretted voting Remain (18-34 7.2%, 35-54 1.5%, 55+ 4.4%).

Sample size 1033. Conducted 24th - 25th June.

Opinium: Tables here Page 14 is the one with the "do you regret your vote" data.

Leave regretters = 7%, Remain regretters = 3%. Welsh voters have the least regrets. Voters aged under 44 most likely to have regrets.

Sample size 2006. Conducted 28th - 30th June.

Remember too that people could vote Leave for radically different reasons.

I have been saying this from the start, leave contains diametrically opposed groups, in a enemy of my enemy is my friend partnership.

Only part of leave are going to get what they want when they leave and the others will be rabid as they will be furious that they won and yet lost ALL that they were expecting.

The leaders of leave want free trade and hence movement and are tied to the London financial sector. Messing with it is the same as doing a zimbabwe.

I very much doubt it. You'd have to be some cookie to look around at this shambles and thought: aw, I wish I'd been on that team.

UnderTheGreenwoodTree
No. I was pro-European before the vote, and I remain so now.

I am also pro-european but anti the EU because I believe in democracy, peace and that individual states are safer than expanding states with military ambitions.

bkgirl what is so undemocratic about the EU?

Pro-Brexit because the EU is undemocratic?

Ha! So you're happy to give an unelected prime minister (Gove or May, a bit like choosing between herpes and crabs) the reigns to implement a decision to remove the EU citizenship of 48% of the country against their will?

Soooo democratic!