Genuine q, what does the UK gain from this?

[dragonsarebest]

I voted Remain, but we lost and I want to be optimistic, so I'd genuinely like to know what benefits we can look forward to following Brexit. I'm really not interested in arguing, point-scoring or vague "taking control" statements, but I would like to understand what the positives will/could be for my family and me once the UK is officially out? Thanks.

Also, another government paper:

While the Uk is negotiating with EU, we would have a limited ability to negotiate trade agreements with countries outside the EU. Countries are likely going to want to see what our relationship with the EU will be before making any arrangements.

Also the US has already confirmed it will stand by its decision to 'put us to the back of the queue' in terms of trade agreements.

If the negotiating is going to take longer than the 2 years from triggering article 50, we'd have to get an agreement from all 27 nations for an extension. If we don't get the extension we could leave without anything.

Will look for good news now, I promise!

Good luck with that Waitrose

A vote leave man on R4 Today prog this morning set the bar for brexit success really low: "Look, the world hasn't ended."

So that's all good then.

Negotiated bilateral agreement (like Switzerland) : £4,300

I'm firmly on the Remain side but those figures are based on dodgy assumptions and are not really credible:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36073201

I'd say the £4300 figure and the announcement of the "punishment budget" taken together could well have been the two easily avoidable steps that actually tipped the result into Leave.

Dacre Thanks for that video link and I agree it's actually quite chilling. However I still can't see how things might improve post Brexit, or even any suggestions of what might change? What am I missing?

The thing is, on a site like MN you will get the better off, largely graduate out voters, who voted our for a range of reasons and who range from very right wing to very left wing.

But I don't think we're the real story. The REAL story is the impoverished rump of the country who feel ignored and left behind.

We have a huge schism down the middle of society, clearly. Maybe this is our final chance to do something about that;

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2016/jun/22/eu-referendum-welcome-to-the-divided-angry-kingdom-video

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2015/apr/09/kensington-london-liverpool-election-inequality-video

Despite my apparent flippancy, I'm all ears too. Some good news would be very cheering, ta very much.

Flour "Oh except parts of the UK becoming poorer as I doubt the gouvernment will maintain the level of funding EU was sending to Cornwall, Wales and other parts."

Well I hope they are behind in the queue to those places that voted remain if there is less in the kitty to go around. They chose their fate, Scotland and Northern Ireland didn't.

Positive: For people who were against Hinckley point Nuclear power station being invested in, it may not happen now.

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-hinkley-point-nuclear-power-station-cancellation-eu-cuts-government-a7106961.html

The Leave vote is concentrated in the parts of the country that have been failed and left to rot.

OK so the whole of England and Wales apart from London and a few other pockets, have been "left to rot"?

Thanks for that nauticant, it's v. helpful. I'm no expert on these things.

Positive: For people who were against Hinckley point Nuclear power station being invested in, it may not happen now.

Yes this is one real and genuine positive!

And if we address that and emerge more united and equal, maybe that will be the most important benefit.

Personally, I've been pretty sceptical about the EU since my undergrad days (Politics and Public Policy) but for a long time believed membership was a necessary evil. One of the things that tipped me was the range of experiences of 'poor people' (and I mean really poor) that I saw at work.

But for me, the final road to Damascus moment has come post-election, watching friends, acquaintances and peers across social media tell each other ad nauseum that those who voted out are all 'thick twats' and 'racist scum'.

Fine. Those of us with reasonable incomes and a coherent internal position can suck that up and know that we're not racist etc.

But LOOK at those films. Consider what is happening here. You look at the statistical trends and ignore the anomalies like myself and it is very, very clear that we now have the more privileged half of society verbally abusing the less privileged half, essentially for the 'crime' of being thoroughly miserable with deal that's been foisted on them.

"Maybe we as a society can stop protecting the interests of the old over families and young people."

I can't believe I just read this ageist shit

Take a look at this the reality of being old and tell me again that old people have it so good compared to the young

As I understand it, the key thing we will have gained is some limit on the extent to which rulings of the European court of justice on issues such as how to calculate holiday pay, how long doctors should work and whether you should be allowed to defer your holiday when you are ill will be binding in future on British courts.

I've written a long post on this on one of the other threads.

I'm not joking.

I know you will all join me in feeling that this outcome will be well worth the consequences of brexit.

hurrah

Maybe we as a society can stop protecting the interests of the old over families and young people

You do know some young people are encouraging and actively encouraging attacks on the elderly?

Maybe the OLD people remember life before we joined the EU? Maybe they remember the initial premise and promises that were made about vetos and laws and rules?

Maybe they have watched in utter horror as our country as been sliding towards ever closer union with megalomaniacs who care about the ideology of the union above all else.

Maybe just maybe the elderly have actually saved the skins of the young but they just dont realise it yet?

If we're now FORCED to address this situation, if we can restructure the economy to provide more permanent, secure (non zero hour) employment and affordable housing for the lower earning portion of our country, we will have a stronger, more stable economy at the end. As well as a more cohesive society, better health outcomes etc. So it benefits everyone.

And if there HAS been a growth of racism and xenophobia in poorer communities and demographics, we need to DO something about that urgently anyway.

And where it hasn't tipped into that but is nevertheless extreme dissatisfaction with the deal that the lower income deciles have been given in recent decades, we need to address that too and quickly.

The Leave vote is concentrated in the parts of the country that have been failed and left to rot.

Yes, and that motivation should be a worry anyway. But if you didn't care but you're a remainer, you need to care now.

Rainyourrittingdahilas I think the OP was looking for evidence of things we have actually gained from this.

A nebulous and somewhat nostalgic shrug that maybe you have saved the young from some as yet unspecified fate doesn't really count.

Dacre I don't disagree with anything you say (except I have always been pro-EU), insults have been hurled from both sides, but I still don't see how leaving the EU will tangibly help any of the people in those films. I've just watched the tale of two Kensingtons and it struck me that both voted remain.

OK so the whole of England and Wales apart from London and a few other pockets, have been "left to rot"?

Consider this Funky. What if a pretty uniform 30% of the electorate outside of the big cities were out voters motivated by poverty and deprivation?

If they'd been happier, more secure, less frightened by their lot, they might have voted 'in'.

Maybe it wasn't as much as 30% of the turnout that was motivated by their experience of poverty, low wages and insecurity. Perhaps it was 20% or 15%. But it was almost certainly enough to have tipped the 48:52 result.

Watch the films I linked. See what people are saying.

Mistigirl

Really. I must tell my anglophone children, who attend secondary school in a European country, that their classmates are just pretending not to talk english.

I was replying to Waitrose. She was talking about finance. The only people considered for those kind of jobs will be the more educated ones. I am in finance. All of my EU colleagues below 40 (and even those above, actually) can speak English.

English is pretty much compulsory in Germany, if you're the kind headed to university. They even have state schools (i.e. not private) that have different language branches at high school. So maybe one class gets taught all subjects in German, one class gets taught all subjects in English and one class in French. At university level, they also offer modules in English. When I looked at jobs there as a graduate from the UK, each position in the larger firms asked for the candidate to have spent at least a year abroad (you don't see many job adverts like that in the UK).

The young Swedes speak English fabulously, too. My French colleague sitting next to me who just moved here a few months ago has a daughter in primary school. When they moved here, the daughter just went to school like without a hitch, because she spoke English... and apparently, our curriculum is a bit behind France anyway.

more permanent, secure (non zero hour) employment and affordable housing for the lower earning portion of our country, we will have a stronger, more stable economy at the end.

Absolutely agree with this 100%.

I just don't see how it has anything to do with the EU. And also now our economy has been destabalised again (for the people by the people this time), changes to zero hour contracts, and building more affordable housing becomes even less likely.

I really hope I am wrong about this - but I can't see how Brexit will in any way help improve either of these things- in fact it will just make the situation worse as we spend years focusing on Brexit there is less time and money for other matters.

I don't think there is much benefit to be had for the UK I'm afraid. I'm feeling very sorry and worried for you all right now. (And a little cross on behalf of everyone who worked so hard for peace in Northern Ireland)

On the other hand there is some indication that there are upsides to this for the EU. The economic cost will be considerable but a number of sectors (not individual businesses) will relocate to within the trade zone.

We will lose the UK veto and lobby in parliament which was very pro big business and against environmental protection. They lobbied against pesticide control, pollutant manufacturing standards etc and completely undermined labour laws on a number of levels not least of which is the abomination of zero hours contracts.

Finally, evidence of the euros demise might be wishful thinking. And it's also useful to look at what happened in Grease. Before they tried it there was a huge movement across the EU to burn the bond holders for bank debt. Once everyone saw how badly it went they stopped espousing it. I think this might actually help.us with the problem of the far right.

Some posters on the Leave side seem to be expecting the implementation of socialist policies and a fairer distribution of the wealth of the nation to now follow. This is very surprising indeed.

However, since the thread question asks for a gain, I think it is for the people of the UK, or England and some other bit(s), to see plainly what they voted for being put into effect so that in the future they will reflect more when a demagogue promises the Earth. For this reason I support Cameron in not being the one of kick this off and for the Leave campaigners in the Tory party to be made to implement what they campaigned for. Everyone who is willing to see will learn from that.