Genuine q, what does the UK gain from this?

[dragonsarebest]

I voted Remain, but we lost and I want to be optimistic, so I'd genuinely like to know what benefits we can look forward to following Brexit. I'm really not interested in arguing, point-scoring or vague "taking control" statements, but I would like to understand what the positives will/could be for my family and me once the UK is officially out? Thanks.

Purit, you're town sounds very much like mine. We've also lost massive employers over the last decade and stand to lose more soon.

We also voted overwhelmingly to leave. Although immigration and the NHS are/were the hot topic in the run up (I work in a shoip so I hear everyone's opinion from the bloke popping into to buy his copy of Torygraph on his way to his important meeting to the local alcy calling in for his cider)

A lot of people also stated that the "the EU do nothing for us", and "didn't help us when X shut down." etc

Except the EU have done loads for our town. People just realise how much they've done. We've recieved over 7 million from them in the last 10 years. With it we've built a new college, which recieved further EU funding for adult education courses, our council has started community projects with EU grants, such as business hubs which help new business start ups, debt councils, yet more training and education opportunities and the effects of our governments cuts have been watered down. Our council has used EU funding to keep open our main library, keep our sure start open, temper the start of the bedroom tax via discretionary payments to give households time to adjust.

All of that was from the EU, yet the general consesus is that they do nothing for us and have ruined our town. I'd like to know how many people actually believe that Westminister will continue funding those EU prjects in a small, northern coastal town? I personally we've just voted for the further decline of our town.

Looby and that piece goes on to say (my emphasis):

With both Ireland and Portugal now out of their bailout programmes, the UK has not lost any money supporting them at the peak of the crisis.
The UK has not made a contribution via the EU for the other eurozone bailouts: the three Greek ones, in 2010, 2012 and 2015 and for the Spain and Cyprus bailouts in 2012.
The UK has made further contributions, not because it was forced to do so by the EU, but because the IMF too provided loans for some of the bailouts. The UK's share of whatever the IMF provides is around 4.5% of the total. It amounts to around €4.5bn for all seven bailout mentioned.
In addition, in 2010, the UK provided €3.9bn in bilateral bailout loans to its neighbour and important trading partner - Ireland.

Its not my argument Alisvolatpropiis I am not an MP. I am not paid to make decisions for people. Direct your vitriol to our useless ex PM who decided to hold this referendum

Apologies all for trying to be positive. Silly me. We're all doomed FFS

dragon thanks for starting this thread though.
With Remainers being shouted at so much and for so long on here for being hysterical doom monger fear merchants who are completely wrong, it's reassuring to know that there is a reason that I can't find the bright side.

Wish I could though, wish I could.

He says that a lot of finance is likely to stay here as English is the language of finance

Ireland is english speaking, and has excellent packages to attract investment, as well as a world-class financial services sector. Even if you leave there will still be an English speaking gateway to Europe, it just won't be you anymore.

But, Dacre, whilst we wait and see if there is any upside at all, people will suffer the effects of this in very real and painful ways. All of that real suffering will happen in order to 'wait and see' if anything good comes out of it? It just makes me despair.

This is a post ref conversation. I'm not suggesting that we all vote out as a 'wait and see' experiment. It's not roulette.

Out voters had their rationales. In voters had theirs.

I'm just saying that, as both types of rationale rely on a degree of prediction, that there's not much point in both sides endlessly reasserting and rejecting differing views. We'll know who is right soon enough.

And the poster who suggested a benefit will be greater 'diverse immigration', I wonder how tiny a fraction of Leave voters saw that as a possibility, far less a positive!

Fraction, yes, but fractions differ in size. Tiny, no.

"More broadly however, Brexit may lead to a more agile decision-making at government level, a more engaged and critical electorate, potential for democratic restructure (both for political parties and electoral process), and addressing the causes of the disaffected".

I challenge you to provide one concrete reason why Brexit can be expected to lead to any of these outcomes, and more importantly, why it was required in order to achieve these ends.

Figment I was summarising what other people had put forward, not making the case for any. I'm just a simple soul trying to find some glimmer of hope in the situation we find ourselves...

"More broadly however, Brexit may lead to a more agile decision-making at government level, a more engaged and critical electorate, potential for democratic restructure (both for political parties and electoral process), and addressing the causes of the disaffected"

Or, more likely, the exact opposite.

The EU was the one thing saving your populace from the worst of the Tory excesses, providing a measure of relief from some of the austerity cuts and so on. Now what, for your disaffected?

I am a remainer, but I will answer based on conversations I have had with the sensible leavers that I know. Many leavers are frankly batshit, so I will exclude those.

Some people believe we are better off governing ourselves entirely. They do not want an unelected parliament in Brussels having any say at all on what we do.

That is it put simply.

What I think the majority of people fail to grasp is that things are always a balance.

1. Any "control" is largely dependent on who we elect and what they do and our government have disappointed us as much as we feel the EU has.

1. Any extra "power" we have internally is conterbalanced by the loss of "power" on a global scale that we have now by standing alone. Safety in numbers etc.

1. People are generally not aware that 90% or more of whatever went through in Brussels was democratically voted on, and that the UK had one of the largest presences at the negotiating table and we now no longer have that.

1. That our cowardly governments are rubbish at pushing through legislation that no one likes the look of, so they have painted the EU as the bogeyman to blame for laws and rules we don;t like but which we would have gotten anyway.

1. That a large part of our "freedom" comes from being economically strong, safe, protected and free to have that freedom- beyond which is just becomes a worthless sort of freedom.

Any argument for specifics - fishing, funding, regulations - can all be wiped away in a moment by the great benefits we enjoyed by remaining in the EU so this has always been an idiological "fight for freedom" against those that feel we are better of as part of a larger community.

I'm not being vitriolic looby but it seems a bit ridiculous to offer an opinion based facts which are either incorrect or being misused.

Lying is not positivity.

"My town has lost its three biggest employers, they have closed down. The other big company has moved manufacture abroad. The largest employer now is the local private school, followed by the Council. My DD has already left here to find work in the prosperous south and I expect my DS to do the same in time.
The town is dying.
So, tell me again, what am I supposed to thank the EU for?"

That is not the question. It is not about "thanking the EU". The issue is - how and why will Brexit assist in achieving any of these ends (as opposed to - and far more likely), making them very much worse.

we've moved to LED light bulbs and they are fantastic.... so much brighter and cheaper to run... but like most things have the british public are mushrooms - kept in the dark and fed shit...

I challenge you to provide one concrete reason why Brexit can be expected to lead to any of these outcomes, and more importantly, why it was required in order to achieve these ends.

It has already started.

Prior to the referendum, the disaffected were wilfully ignored.

As a direct result of the referendum result both major parties are in turmoil and are finally acknowledging the sociological fissure that they were repeatedly told about and repeatedly ignored.

Will change comes from this? only time will tell.
But the voice of the long ignored is being heard at last.

Prior to the referendum, the disaffected were wilfully ignored

And they still are being ignored, and will be in the future. What do you think has changed?

This thread perfectly demonstrates why the Leavers are calling us 'moany' and accusing us of 'whinging' and 'doom-mongering' or of being like petulant toddlers. Because they can't counter-argue with one single positive justification of Brexit and they are desperately trying to stop us from pointing this out. Here we are with an open invitation to tell us why Brexit is a good thing and the very best they can do is say that it might be ok in the future but we will have to wait and see.

Alisvolatpropiis

OP post - but I would like to understand what the positives will/could be for my family and me once the UK is officially out

''WILL/COULD BE'' - OP did not ask for facts. No one Leave or Remain know ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, what will happen 5 years down the line, whether we were in or out.

Have a great day

The EU was the one thing saving your populace from the worst of the Tory excesses, providing a measure of relief from some of the austerity cuts and so on. Now what, for your disaffected?

Now what?

Well hopefully our own politicians will start doing their jobs - representing the electorate and looking after their country to the best of their ability, with a robust and challenging opposition.

We shouldn't ever have needed a parent (the EU) to sort us out like a naughty child.
It's disgusting that it got to that point.

Almost everyone younger than 40 speaks English in Europe.

Really. I must tell my anglophone children, who attend secondary school in a European country, that their classmates are just pretending not to talk english.

A lot of the most educated people do speak good English, but outside the Netherlands and perhaps one or two other countries, it's still a small minority,

Actually, a lot of young people do speak English (and often more languages) in the EU. Unlike the majority of British, who do not speak any other languages (I'm not debating the good and the bad here, just the facts).

Well hopefully our own politicians will start doing their jobs - representing the electorate and looking after their country to the best of their ability, with a robust and challenging opposition.

It shouldn't be too much to ask, should it?

Really. I must tell my anglophone children, who attend secondary school in a European country, that their classmates are just pretending not to talk english.

What are you talking about?

And they still are being ignored, and will be in the future. What do you think has changed?

Do feel free to read the rest of my post that you quoted a fraction of, User.

It will answer that question.

"Figment I was summarising what other people had put forward, not making the case for any. I'm just a simple soul trying to find some glimmer of hope in the situation we find ourselves..."

I*'m sorry - I shouldn't snap - I'll be honest, this whole thing has plunged me into a genuine sleep deprived depression, and today I am struggling with the aftermath of a sleeping tablet.

I am just not willing to let people get away with "seeing the good" yet, because it is bullshit really, and we need to recognise and accept that.

But I need to switch off my computer really, because I am not helping anybody, least of all myself!

looby you were stating known facts incorrectly.

Well hopefully our own politicians will start doing their jobs - representing the electorate and looking after their country to the best of their ability, with a robust and challenging opposition

Why haven't they been doing it up to now, and what possible incentive is Brexit for them to suddenly do so?
You get that its the same people, right? What makes you think that will morph into these epic brave leaders they have never been before?