We need to pull together, grow a pair and GET ON WITH IT!

[iwantadragon]

To listen to people talk, it seems we have turned into a nation of wimpy, whinging apologists.

''I'm so embarrassed''
''I'm so ashamed''
''I'm full of despair''
''I'm so sorry''
''My life is ruined'
''Please accept my apologies''

Stop bloody whinging and saying sorry.

How do you think this tail between the legs cowed talk makes us look to the rest of the world?
It's about time we all grew up, put on a united front and got on with things
Show everybody what we're really made of.

and breathe

And you've been told we will have to wait and see.

No, it hasn't. Im an optimist by nature rather than a pessimist.

I have also said why I voted leave.

Good night Judy.

I don't like the idea of resting my future on the hopes of "wait and see"

It's not a trip to the seaside fgs. It's our economy. Wait and see doesn't cut it for me, I'm afraid.

The reasons people are unhappy can be almost wholly explained by UK government policies.

You know, beetroot, that government you described as arrogant and out of touch.

The one you've just given even more power to.

This "what facts, whose facts" thing is straight out of the Leave campaign.

The facts of being in the EU, and the facts of today's economic & political situation, are very easy to see. They're fully documented, vetted & checked.

The facts of being out of the EU are unknown, unplanned and undirected. "Wait and see" is not a fact, a policy or a plan.

Wait and see. FFS. We can see already, can't we? Businesses are leaving, people are losing their jobs, the pound has plummeted, racists are having a lovely time going around making people's lives hell. Why are you so determined to close your eyes to that, beetroot? Does it make you feel uncomfortable?

Motherofbleach
Your future is always 'wait and see'. We never know what's round the corner for sure. All we can do is guess.

Now my guess is the future in the EU is not good. The Euro is in a mess, if we had chosen Bremain we would have been forced to contribute (substantially) to another Greek bailout. Indeed why do you think Britain is wanted IN/, given we have never, after all, been a particularly easy coun try for the othr big players to work with? They want us in and are angry with us leaving because we are a NET CONTRIBUTOR. We put in more than we take out.

But getting back to the EU. Its in a mess unemployment is high, terrorism is growing, the migrant crisis is causing crime and anger. The people of the Eurozone are very unhappy. The French (people not elite) like the EU even less than we do. They have very high youth unemployment, immigrants camping at their northern ports and making life hell for the locals (caused in large part by Schhengen). If they were allowed a referendum they would almost certainly vote 'out' too.

And the 'migrant crisis'. If we stay in we will almost certainly be forced to take a share of the people Merkel so rashly invited. Even if we managed to avoid that, in five years time the current million plus will all have citizenship, and certainly a large proportion will take advantage of that to decamp to Britain. And more and more keep coming, the tide hasnt stopped and they are rarely sent home, jut released to head for Britain if an application fails.

So you see, its not so much that we are guaranteed a bright future taking back control of our country and our borders, as that we are facing a grim future if we don't. When the Titanic starts sinking do you say its such a great ship it will never sink, or do you jump into a lifeboat while you've got the chance, for sure as hell we wont get another one?

Now my guess is the future in the EU is not good. The Euro is in a mess, if we had chosen Bremain we would have been forced to contribute (substantially) to another Greek bailout

No, we wouldn't

But getting back to the EU. Its in a mess unemployment is high

No, it's not

Especially not in the UK

And the 'migrant crisis'. If we stay in we will almost certainly be forced to take a share of the people Merkel so rashly invited

Migrants and refugees are not the same thing. We have already agreed upon a quota of refugees. It's looking increasingly likley that we will have to accept freedom of movement aka migration in order to trade within the EU. As around 44% of our exports go to the EU, trading with them isn't really optional.

immigrants camping at their northern ports

You do realise they'r'e camping on the English border, don't you?

If the French have got any sense, they'll stop hosting our border and send it right back to England. Along with its campers.

By the way, what do you feel is best to do about the millions of people being bombed, starved and tortured out of their homes?

In WW2 we put thousands of Jewish people (mainly children) on ships that just travelled around. I don't think we've got enough ships now - and they did have to land eventually, anyway.

Leaving the EU will make little or no difference to immigration. We will still have an obligation to the former colonies, we will still take in asylum seekers, we will still have illegal immigrants, and we will still have to allow free movement for EU citizens as a trade condition. Even the Leave camp has belatedly acknowledged that.

The difference it will make is that we lose the 6 month concession that Cameron negotiated, and it is highly likely that Calais will tell us it won't host our border control, so the camps will just move to Dover.

I didn't agree with the petition for a second referendum when I first saw it. That is not how democracy does or should work, however the more I read from Leavers, the more I start to think that a second go is not a bad idea.

The public has been lied to. People have voted on misconceptions and outright lies. The electorate need the facts, truthfully and wholly and be allowed to make an informed choice based on FACT.

Unfortunately I fear it is too late for that. I can ony hope that our MPs do what we elected them to do and protect our interests by voting against this madness.

We never know what's round
corner for sure. All we can
do is guess.

This is the problem in a nutshell. The remainers are incredulous because we did know. It was spelt out to us by just about every expert going. The leavers don't accept expert opinions - in fact they seem happy with not knowing. I really don't understand this but it is a huge problem. Sure Gove didn't help with his crass comments but why was it so much easier for Leavers to ignore the warnings given by almost everyone than discount the empty rhetoric of people like Johnson who have a TRACK RECORD for lying?

It's bizarre, allegretto. It freaked me out badly before the referendum, but it feels even weirder now. People are discounting what the very people they followed have said, in favour of repeating the (already empty) words of the Leave campaign. Others are cooking up ever more peculiar conspiracy theories and using those to dismiss the obvious.

It's like trying to have a rational conversation with a religious zealot or a ForeverLiving bot. The one 'leader' who still isn't saying anything that means anything is Farage. Did he hypnotise everyone?

IT doesn't bode well for the US elections, does it? Scary times.

But once people realise for sure that there will be no change to immigration will they vote Farage and cronies in? Or even worse far right ones? Has this vote just given momentum to extremism across Europe? Oh well we'll just have to 'wait and see'. It'll probs be ok. It has in the past which is the best predictor of the future. Oh no, wait...

I am an optimist by nature usually but at the moment I want whatever it is the leave folk are on. I want to find hope but I'm struggling.

Some posters haven't answered the perfectly sensible question of whether those losing their jobs or suffering racist abuse should just happily embrace change and get on with it.

Would Beetroot and others be able to answer that?

And the OP of course.

And more and more keep coming, the tide hasnt stopped and they are rarely sent home, jut released to head for Britain if an application fails.

'More and more keep coming'
' The tide hasn't stopped'
'They are rarely sent home'

.... "Oh we're not racist" claim the leavers. Gah!
Yes and as a poster above said, didn't the leavers think about the fact that the French control our borders at Calais through an agreement with the EU. What do you think will happen now? That's right the border will move to Dover and the EU will sit back and laugh.

And this idea that 'we don't know what's round the corner' - utter twaddle - read your history books, listen to the experts and wise up.

My plan is to a) try & prevent this lunacy going ahead (& therefore wrote to my MP yesterday reminding him parliament is sovereign & article 50 does not have to be triggered) and b) if it does go ahead I'll be praying to a God I don't believe I that we (both our own family & wider community) will get through it.

I am VERY worried about cuts to public spending as my eldest son is severely disabled & a further squeeze on LA budgets would potentially be devastating for him.

So excuse me for not dancing a happy dance.

I've begun to realise that the only reason they are insisting on taking us out of the EU on the result of one split referendum is that Rupert Murdock and Paul Dacre want us out of the EU.

Now, you may be happy for the Sun and the Daily Mail to dictate to us, but I am most definitely not.

That's what makes us weak; the stranglehold these media proprieters have on the country.

So we should just ignore that fact that more people in the country are unhappy with how things were than not? The vote clearly showed that

There is massive unhappiness in many parts of the country. I guess the Northern powerhouse thing was meant to reassure people prosperity was coming to the North.

Oops - posted too soon.

It makes me incredibly sad that so many people are were so unhappy with the country they would actually prefer the shitstorm we are currently going through to the EU

Are we not allowed to be upset and angry?

if you willfully voted based on lies and misinformation for a political future that will ensure you are worse off then no, you aren't allowed to be angry or upset about it. But if you are having that system imposed on you by the uneducated majority who believed those lies and misinformation then yes, you can be angry.

The leave vote showed that people are disfranchised and disillusioned with the government.
The leave vote also shows that many people believed the lies they were told, and many of them are still countering facts with lies.

I'm not ready to move on, I'm fucking furious that we are now in this position.
Given the lies I don't think the referendum should stand, there should be no campaign, this isn't a bonny baby campaign, getting as many people on board by whichever means necessary, this is a massive thing with far reaching consequences. There should be facts, honest facts, but I don't think our government is capable of doing this. Johnson and Farage certainly aren't. God help us if we're relying on that shower of shit to get us out of this.

If we go through and leave on the back of this referendum (which we most likely will), it will go through in history as the time when ignorance won, and Lord only knows where this is going to leave us.

I for one am not ready to rub my hands together and say "come on chaps, let's get on with it", I will need more than 5 days to get to this point.

Apathy got us where we are right now. Apathy now will get us to a far worse place.

History repeats itself, have a look at some history books, if you're happy with where this scenario is quietly leading us, fine, if not, get off your arses and do something, tell your MP, tell your friends and family, just don't sit there saying "ah well, it's done now, let's move on quietly", because that way we're all fucked.

Once Article 50 has been invoked (to leave the EU) the terms of any new relationship have to be agreed by all remaining EU members unanimously.

Those same members whose citizens are now being racially abused and attacked.

If common decency doesn't make you concerned about the racism now coming into the open, then self-interest should.

Then of course, how long will those British citizens, who are people of colour, just suck up the abuse ?
Have you already forgotten the NI Troubles and what happens when a minority is abused until it snaps ?

btw, UK politicians need to avoid a deal that creates an obvious border between NI and RoI - to avoid breaking the agreements that stopped the Troubles.

I'm happy to get on with it if someone is able to tell me the plan...

give it a rest with the insults about 'ignorant' leave voters it is tedious and is tarring 17.5 million adults with the same brush. I realise 50% of the polulation are below average intelligence but do not for a moment think they were all on the 'leave' side
surprised you have not managed to get in the 'oldies' jibe as well.
there could be not concrete plan on how to exit the EU because it is a process of negotiation not a 'quick exit' .
neither side could give firm answers into how the result of the referendum would go - the status quo with the EU is not fixed in stone.