Why is Scotland so different?

[Indiestarr]

Does anyone have any insight? Presumably Scotland has the same post-industrial decline and deprivation issues as the north east of England and Wales, and yet their vote was pretty much the complete opposite of these areas. How is it they are almost uniformly progressive when the rest of the UK (NI aside) is anything but?

"I have never read a UKIP leaflet in my life. I don't do detail,"

Neither do they...

'Neither do they...'

Of course being anti-English is racist!
If you are anti-anyone purely on the basis of their race/origin then you are discriminating against them racially.
What else would you call it?

claig The very essence of being Scottish is a hatred of 'elites'.
Do you really think that Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Nigel Farage are not part of the elite political class? Only Farage has the slightest shred of credibility since he has campaigned for this for all of his political life.

' The very essence of being Scottish is a hatred of 'elites'.'

Yes, however, 62%, of Scottish people don't mind being run by a coalition of appointed former politicians from other countries and don't mind sharing power by sitting in a parliament made up of MEPs from all over Europe whom the Scottish people did not elect e.g. Golden Dawn MEPs from Greece or Jobbik MEPs from Hungary, whereas the majority of the English do not wish to be run by that elite.

It is about power to govern yourself without interference or influence from unelected people or peope voted in by citizens of other countries in order to maintain accountability of the rulers to the ruled.

'Do you really think that Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Nigel Farage are not part of the elite political class?'

I don't think any of these politicians from Oxbridge have much power, they aren't the elite, they are the servants, here today, gone tomorrow, careers in tatters if they gamble wrongly as some did over Remain.

We have to be run by an idiot class of servants, but at least we can deselect them and instruct them what to do as we did in this Referendum, against the wishes of most of them.

'Only Farage has the slightest shred of credibility since he has campaigned for this for all of his political life.'

Absolutely, and that is why the Establishment hates him. He has opposed them most of his life and now he has beaten them and put all their business bosses noses out of joint as the bankers who backed Remain now have to say "we respect the will of the British people".

i certainly felt anti-No pressure in indyref 1, the Yes campaign were vocal and in your face, many people covered in the Saltire. I was tempted to similarly dress myself up like that, and then stick better together stickers all over myself, I love Scotland, I don't and never have believed that Scotland is better going it alone. As it was, I had my one measly no thanks sticker ripped off my bag by a 4 year old with an opposing view! And I live in a naice area.

I don't think any of these politicians from Oxbridge have much power, they aren't the elite Explain clearly who the elite are then?

'Explain clearly who the elite are then?'

The money power, the bankers, the lobbyists, te billionaires, not some jumped up Oxbridge graduate parachuted into a safe seat at the age of 25 and groomed for "leadership" of the country. The media barons, the lobbyists etc have power over them and of course what the British people have rebelled against is that EU elites have power over them as well, and that means they have power over us, the British people.

That is why we wanted out and that is why we won against the combined forces of the Establishment, the bankers, the media and the BBC. That is why the whole world is stunned because hardly ever have the people beaten the elites and discredited the entire shower and all the lies and scares they told.

Scotland can't survive without handouts, so they're totally dependent on the EU ( or the rest of the UK )
That's it really.

so here is areally weird theory.... Many of the most tolerant parts of the worl are in less hospitable areas. For example, in The US the north tends to be more liberal. I think hardship reminds people that we need each other, as longs as it is not so much hardship that you start competing with neighbours for survival. In contrast people that had an easier life, develop some type of entitlement to it.
I know is a bit bonkers, but I think it contributes to the difference between scotaland and england.

64% of Scotland's trade is with the rest of the UK and its second biggest trading partner is the USA with 14.5%

www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/Exports/ESSPublication

The EU is about to collapse, the British people have ended it against the threats and scares of the Establishment. That is why Sturgeon is whistling in the wind with talk of referendums and joining the EU.

The earthquake that the British people have set off across the world will soon expose Sturgeon for her bluff and bluster.

Le Pen is threatening Frexit, there is talk of Swexit, Czexit, soon Italy will refuse to accept the terms dictated to the if they need a bailout, then the Greeks might finally say enough in their next bailout.

The chums and cronies, the EU political class, will struggle to hold it together against the rebellions of the people - the Peasants' Revolts.

Then we will return to common sense and cooperation, no more cronies making regulations that affect every toaster, and the stronger nations such as the UK, Germany , France and Italy will no longer have to subsidise the poorer. Then we will get common sense realistic politicians once again and they will be subject to their own people who will be able to hold the idiots to account.

That is why the whole world is stunned because hardly ever have the people beaten the elites and discredited the entire shower and all the lies and scares they told

💨💥Go Great Britain💥💨
🌞 🌞🌞🌞🌞🌞🌞🌞🌞🌞

Well, I hope you are correct, Claig

La Sturgeon certainly thinks she can 'take on Boris' / prevent the UK exiting the EU and was in emergency meetings Saturday morning drafting legislation around a 2nd Scottish IndyRef.

DailyMailEthicalFail, I think she will fall flat on her face and all our BBC media hype about how great she is in debates will all collapse as we saw how useless she was in the debate against Boris and the Leavers.

Unfortunately, Boris is a useless progressive and is not tough enough to call her out, but events will expose her bluff anyway.

www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2016/jun/14/the-suns-pro-brexit-campaigning-doesnt-cross-borders

also the Daily Record supported Remain.

claig well l think she comes across well in England. She is a good speaker - polished. Also she is not afraid of Boris. He is the sort of typical public school twat that she relishes taking on.

In Scotland she is not as universally popular as she thinks.
The Named Person legislation is making a lot of people nervous (a State Guardian for every child!).
She has screwed up Education and the Scottish NHS isn't as good as they would have you believe. Even the Forth Bridge is falling apart.
She needs to time the 2nd IndyRef very carefully - if they lose again she is done for.

Ruth Davidson is the one to watch in Scotland, imo.

I was at the Highland Show last week and of course chatting to my fellow farmers about the referendum. One said that he'd like to put Nicola, Boris, Donald Trump and Nigel Farage up against a wall and shoot them. They're all egotistical head bangers.

after reading so many of the threads on here, explaining why people actually voted leave (because I know hardly anyone who did), I cant believe its came down to the fact leave voters believe that they have stuck two fingers up to the establishment and shown them who's boss.

who are they kidding? do they really think they've done that? they have walked right into a United Kingdom that will be run by extreme right wingers, who dont care about the working classes and never did

I think this is the biggest difference between Scotland and England, we knew the establishment were deep amongst the leave campaign and they were playing the voters for fools with their lies about £350 million for the NHS and get the immigrants out etc....the NHS wont get more money and immigration wont stop, in fact if Calais move the borders to the south of England, immigration will be worse than ever

I think the backlash when the little Englanders finally realise this will be worse than anything being heard now from the remain side

'Also she is not afraid of Boris. He is the sort of typical public school twat that she relishes taking on.'

Yes you are right. Our entire political class is useless because they are all too scared to tell the truth, and that was shown when the people told them the truth in this Referendum.

Personally, I think Sturgeon is just another progressive spinner like Blair and all the rest that the BBC like. If we had a politician with courage, like Farage, I think that her spin would be exposed just like Nick Clegg's was when Farage took him on.

I think we will all get a new politics but it will take a long, long time because all the stooges are still in power even though lots of them are resigning by the hour.

'I think the backlash when the little Englanders finally realise this will be worse than anything being heard now from the remain side'

It won't, ssd, because what you are saying is what the BBC and Tessa Jowell and the Labour Oxbridge types are all saying, but they don't understand why the people voted out.

The BBC and Tessa are saying that the people were conned because the £350 million isn't £350 million and immigration can't be controlled. But this is wrong because those are not the reasons we voted out (or the BBC and Labour statement that we will be angry when we find that the Leavers had no plan).

The reality is we know that the politicial class are useless idiots from Oxbridge, we know that Boris is just another one. We don't expect them to sort out immigration quuckly because we know that Boris doesn't want to. But the reason we voted out was to return power to our parliament so that one day in the future we can sack our useless idiots and replace them with common sense politicians and then we can be listened to by the elite.

Rome wasn't built in a day and we won't recover our freedom overnight, but we have taken the first step and we are satisified with that.

common sense politicians Who are these magical people?

'common sense politicians Who are these magical people?'

Very good question. They are as rare as hen's teeth. But they will emerge as the earthquake we have set off unfolds and as all the stooges are exposed for their lies and scares and start to resign as the entire political system reacts to the instruction and will of the British people.

There is a race/class element going on with Nicola though.
She loathes Boris BECAUSE of his background as much as his actions.
Her 'taking him on' is a desire to win over the posh English toff as much as any proper political discourse.

For a while I was quite closely connected to the Faculty of Advocates.
As I said upthread, some of the racism and sectarianism there has to be seen to be believed. And plenty public school issues in Edinburgh / plenty 'elite' in the legal system in Scotland.

It is no less corrupt than England, but it is differently corrupt and it is far less visible to 'outsiders' than the English brand of corruption, I feel.

Who are these extreme right wingers who will now be in charge? UKIP still only has 1 MP. Labour London did not think BoJo was right wing when they elected him mayor twice.