AIBU to be seriously considering leaving the UK after Friday's result?

[Ladyonashortfuse]

Appalled at the outcome on Friday and not willing to give up for our DC the rights to live work and study in the EU we've enjoyed, we are looking to move to a friendly EU country in October with a view eventually to gaining back our EU citizenship. Don't think we can rely on anything better coming out of the Brexit negotiations. DH works on the internet and I have a TEFL qualification so think we'll manage financially. DC are all pre school age. Obviously however this is going to be a major upheaval and it'll be more difficult to stay in touch with family etc, who are likely to be upset. AIBU and/or mad to be going this far? Am in two minds at present.

Off you go then.

Stay
Our country needs us

Because:

"Fundamentally, as a country we have voted to throw out the biggest peacetime Enlightenment political project in history, in favour of a ragbag bunch of racist liars and thugs"

My DH is an economist and has been saying that the EU had 5 years left maximum even before we left. Many of the strong countries will now follow suit and the EU will collapse. The EU is not what it was promised to be when it was originally created and is unsustainable.

georgette I have many friends like this too, and they may leave, but I think ultimately they are more likely to take British nationality if they haven't done so already. The economic prospects in many EU nations are poor and the youth there hard done by, especially in Southern Europe. I think a couple of academic ones may go to the States or Australia/NZ if they go anywhere, as these places pay higher salaries, they are not going to go back to being academics in Greece, really they are not.

They might not go back to Greece, but they can go elsewhere in the EU: research scientists follow the funding. Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden in particular are attractive countries for research scientists and academics, since you can teach and research in English in all of them. I know lots of NHS consultants actively looking for posts in New Zealand, Australia and so on - there are people who are willing and mobile and happy to leave. We should not be complacent about this. Low-paid and medium-paid workers in England don't have anywhere to go, by and large. The wealthy tend to be rooted in one place; the super rich are mobile anyway. But for goodness sake, the very people we don't want leaving our economy are the people who innovate, create, do STEM and tech research, and so on. They are the real wealth creators and a brain drain really matters.

"I'm applying for eu passports for me and DC"

How does that work, Badders? Do you mean applying for passports (and therefore presumably citizenship) of another EU country?

It's ironic that one of the main reasons so many voted 'Leave' was because they were anti-immigration, and as a result so may British are considering becoming immigrants in other countries.....

Stay Our country needs us

Incidents of Racial Hate Speech / Mailicious Communications (in person and online) jump 540% in 36 hours. link

Nah, I don't particularly like our country any more.

Derelict people are not 'threatening' to leave, they are considering it. Obviously on consideration some will decide to stay and some to go. Perhaps the fact that so many people are thinking about it should make you take their worries seriously. I'm considering it myself for the first time ever - it certainly won't happen soon, it may not happen at all, but the fact I've considered it is significant.
As for the 'we've left the EU not Europe' that I keep seeing - what do you mean? Try telling Mexicns it's ok because they're in America just not the US. Our geographical location is a minor detail compared to our political/social one.

georgette I agree there will be a moderate brain drain, also we will struggle to recruit the best academics due to this uncertainty.

However, this thread is about moving to preserve your right to be an EU citizen, as nothing was stopping anyone moving to the US/Aus/Canada before or after Brexit.

I value being European, and the only upside for me of being made to feel unwelcome, is my children's dual passports, which I am extremely smug about given like I say, the mild 'go home' stuff they have had to put up with and general feeling of not being terribly wanted, despite us paying huge amounts of tax over the past decade or more.

But realistically, whole families have moved from Eastern and Southern Europe because there are few jobs and work opportunities there, we know loads. There are much more in Northern Europe, as you point out. I don't think they are all going to get up and move 'home', much as the xenephobes might wish, as they made an economic decision to come here, and will make an economic decision about where is best for their families, and that's as it should be.

If you go stropping off to mainland Europe in the belief that everyone there loves the EU and is super-tolerant of immigrants, this is a completely fallacious belief. I have family in two other European countries, and their right-wing is stronger and immigrants more directly targeted and openly despised by the local population (as I say, 'certain' immigrants groups in particular).

Appreciate that not everywhere on the Continent is a utopia (I've lived abroad before so I know!) and I don't expect this to be easy. I'm worried too about this being partly an emotional reaction and of course we don't know exactly what's going to happen next. But given the tone of the Leave campaign I don't think we can count on getting the privileges of free movement to other EU countries since presumably we'd have to grant reciprocal rights to them in return. And if we've only got 2 years before we have to finally leave and the final details arent clear until near the end, that doesn't give us much time to play with. So we might need to act quite quickly.

I would absolutely put out feelers and get a few fingers in a few pies.

We moved three years ago and are feeling quite fortunate in that we have options available to us that might not be there for others. We didn't particularly forsee the referendum, so it's luck rather than planning, but there is nothing stopping you planning.

I think it can be a blessing long-term to take a hard look at your life and priorities and change your circumstances.

Good luck which ever way you choose op.

"AIBU and/or mad to be going this far?"

I agree with AuntieStella in that I don't think it's unreasonable for a family to consider relocation or to relocate internationally.

However, OP, I would be interested in what your plan would be if your adopted country later opted to leave the EU (or made a political change that you felt unable to live with)?

You could end up nomadically hopping around what was left of the EU (assuming they would each in turn grant you citizenship) searching for political stability, as you saw it.

OK OP which Utopian country are you thinking of relocating to? Greece or Spain? theyre even more fucked than we are, Spain has elections today. France and Germany? LenPen is most likely to win there, makes UKIP look like bambi. Italy? They have a petition for leave. The old soviet block states? Well if it was that fantastic why have a million of them moved here to do low skill low wage jobs.
I'm not trying to be goady just interested as to exactly where you think is going to be a) better than here And b) welcome you with open arms. Obviously if you are a citizen of another Eu country they will welcome you back with open arms less so if you're a disaffected Brit.

So where will you go then ?

I don't think it's remotely mad to consider where you might best be placed, in a situation of economic and political turmoil. But if you move to another country, and you don't have links to that country by birth or otherwise, then being a citizen will take a while. You might also think what will happen to your pension if you have one, as the cross-EU system will probably collapse (we will be stung by this I reckon).

I just don't think this should be an emotional decision, I would take an economic one based on your skills and where you will be best placed- as someone says, if you move to France, the EU collapses, and you are not yet a citizen, what will you do? Many countries are not generous with their benefit system in the first couple of years.

You can always come back though:)

ADish makes an excellent point
Ironically a lot of this thread shows the arguments for leaving the EU!

Just bide your time - see what happens. Not a time for rash decisions I feel.

We almost moved to France 10 years ago, but you need to have your eyes open - many French people do not like the "invasion" of Brits and can give you the cold shoulder in a big way - would you want to live like that?

YABU, the Brexit vote has prompted me to look seriously into applying for an Irish passport. I am eligible but should have applied before the DCs were born as then they would have been eligible too.

DH works for a global company and gas been looking at the international job opportunities - considering Canada at the moment!

I do have dual citizenship UK and EU but there are many EU countries I would consider undesirable either down to economic instability or a far right faction far worse than anything seen in Britain since the 1930s.

I've felt the EC was at risk at falling ever since it took on second tier nations and artificially inflated their economies. If Greece wasn't a big enough warning then what more did people need ?

Britain will be blamed for the eventual demise of the EC in its current form but ultimately it was inevitable. Best scenario it returns to its original purpose and reverts to a common market and not a form of government.

Toomuch the UK vote has destablised the region quite dramatically, it might have been an argument for voting Remain, but it's too late now, the dominos will fall.

YANBU I'm considering leaving too.

I've always wanted to live in S.France. And if the UK scrapes a majority to go down with the Titanic, I'm not going down with it.

m.heraldscotland.com/news/14580557.quot_I_hope_we_ditch_the_Scots_from_the_UK__And_the_Welsh__Then_we_can_just_be_England__That__39_s_what_people_want___England_back__quot/

It's not about some utopia. It's about making the right decision for you and your family, doing the best you can with the options open to you. People do that all the time, at all points in their lives, even without a Brexit referendum. But it's been quite a kick up the arse for some people, myself included, and there is more incentive to consider these fundamental issues now.

For us, as you're wondering Lynnm63, Ireland, an independent EU-member state Scotland (with the obviously major caveat of this actually becoming a reality) or Germany.