To be furious if this is true-the freedom of movement

[Rebecca2014]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241

Seriously? majority of people who voted for leave wanted control of our borders, we brought into your story of an Australian style point system now it seems there's still going be freedom of labour movement which is basically the same thing expect they get less legal rights.

I didn't just vote leave for immigration but yes it was a big reason and if I known this, if remain had a better hammered this home I bet MANY leave voters would not have voted the way they did. If anything if this happens, many leave voters will join the remain voters in rage at the lies we been fed. (NHS, Immigration)

I have been a vocal leave supporter on here but now I am feeling pretty scared about what I have voted for. I blame the remain campaign for having an totally shit and ineffective campaign and Cameron should never have been the leader of the remain camp, as majority of people despise him and don't take any notice of what he says.

The only time I have ever agreed with Farage is when he said he fancied a fag and a pint.

All that the referendum result does is to ask the government to leave the UK

Ooops. I meant EU, of course. Though maybe that was what is known as a Freudian slip ...

globe I agreed with him once, I've wiped my mind of what it was but unfortunately I never shook off that unclean feeling I got. I'm pretty sure it was something innocuous but still - all the unclean feelings!

OP, I came here from Poland 22 years ago and have lived here, paid my taxes, built my home, raised my children, been part of the community (hey, I even got a fucking allotment!), blah-di-blah-di-blah, I could go on until I'm blue in the face about how much THIS is my home!
And now I hear about immigrants being called 'vermin' and told to go home. Language like this is legitimised by what has happened.
And you feel sorry for yourself and cheated because you failed to properly educate yourself about the most important choice for this fantastic country in decades.
Oh, pass me the flipping violin...

+I personally voted leave in the full knowledge that we would end up in the EEA. That's what I hoped for.*

Can I ask why? I am struggling to see any advantage of being in the EEA over being a member of the EU

Oh bold fail - but can someone explain because while i can see clear advantages to EEA vs out entirely it seems a lot less desirable than being a full EU member.

I think UK is going backwards in economy and people mindset...I am European and feel this was a huge mistake to vote Leave. Some people did not even know what is EU when they were voting...

The EEA is philosophically more desirable to the UK, if you look at its history of relations with the EU, because it doesn't include any participation in political union. Just the Single Market.

It also means no place in the driver's seat, though. No say in the direction the Single Market takes, and no vote on its rules. The UK joined to take control of the direction of the Single Market. Without Thatcher around the table in the 80s, there would have been a lot less EU-wide liberalisation. And there would have been a lot more political integration, which the UK opposed at every turn.

The UK never really "got" that other countries really are genuinely attached to the political project. It spent 43 years arguing for freer trade and nothing else.

So the EEA or EFTA really is its more natural place. Unfortunately, I think it's optimistic to think that that's going to be on offer now. The other EU countries are pissed off after 43 years of the UK messing up the EU pokitical project, and also need to keep their own populists in check, so can't be seen to give the UK an easy out.

Keeping the union on track may be politically more important than selling German cars in England.

Thanks (again) riceccrispie - you have confirmed what I though. I just keep thinking I must be missing something as people actually voted to Leave.

The thing is, we can have two or more years till Article 50 is activated. I hope it will be in October. Make a clean cut. Remember, none of those things that Cameron agreed, such as restrictions on benefits for non-UK citizens is valid now, so your money, Leavers, is still going to Poland. Urge Boris to make it ASAP. Don't drag it on. French can't wait to get rid of the camps in Calais so you've got the champions just across the border. Clean slate etc.

Devilishpyjamas

Sure. My problems with the EU are that they can overrule UK judgements & laws. Also some policies on agriculture & fishing, which are incredibly wasteful, and damaging to us as an island (fishery policies). Also I am not in favour of an 'ever closer union'.

The EU started out as a means for free trade - I am all in favour of that. But it has grown into something far more, which I do not believe we, as a nation, benefit from.

The EU is essentially unjust - take the Eurozone taxation for example. Funds from poorer countries used to bail out bankers in richer countries.

The politicians who work there are, in general, those who cannot get elected to office in their national parliament. Doesn't fill me with confidence.

RiceCrispieTreats

^Unfortunately, I think it's optimistic to think that that's going to be on offer now. The other EU countries are pissed off after 43 years of the UK messing up the EU pokitical project, and also need to keep their own populists in check, so can't be seen to give the UK an easy out.

Keeping the union on track may be politically more important than selling German cars in England.^

If disagree with that, the benefits of allowing the UK to stay in the EEA are a two way street - the rebalancing of the markets (with financial institutions able to continue as normal), the number of Europeans who live & written in the UK, and so on.

*Work, not written

Boris can't do shit, clandestino, right now. And that may not change in the long term.

I think many leavers voted for NO freedom of movement and if they don't get that they will feel cheated of what they tried to obtain.

At the very least I hope the electorate severely punish the Leave campaigners when they realise that promise was not achieved.

Great summation rice

That's the ultimate question now isn't it? How does the eu react? I don't think they're stupid enough to cut us off completely like some people are saying because they aren't stupid. But I doubt any terms will be favourable. Our actions impact them too, both our past and future ones. I just hope it's the cool and sensible heads that sit around those negotiating tables.

Yes. It's going to be a struggle of what's ultimately more important to the other 27: politics, or economics.

The EU started out as a means for free trade - I am all in favour of that. But it has grown into something far more, which I do not believe we, as a nation, benefit from.

That is indeed the age-old narrative in the UK, where the focus has always been money over history.

But that is not the narrative elsewhere in the EU, where you are more likely to hear: "The EU started out as a post-war project to ensure peace in Europe. 'Ever Closer Union' has been the stated goal in the treaties since the 1950s. In the 1980s, it was also used as a vehicle for economic liberalisation, but that has gone too far and now the EU needs to make social justice its goal."

Nor is joining the EEA (if they will have us) an option as we then have free movement of people which is expressly what people voted against here
No. No they didn't. Unless I had a different ballot paper to others?

I think NATO has been the driving force for peace since the second world war, rather than the EU.

Ducky NATO was set up after the Warsaw Pact. They are purely military and focus on building arsenals not maintaining peace.

The EU has been the biggest force for peace.

Plus Turkey are a member of NATO and bomb the crap out of the Kurds. Doesn't sound too peaceful to me.

Nor is joining the EEA (if they will have us) an option as we then have free movement of people which is expressly what people voted against here

No. No they didn't. Unless I had a different ballot paper to others?

It is clearly what a lot of people thought they were voting for. The nasty, fascist backlash against EU migrants telling them to fuck off is proof that a good number of people have completely misunderstood.

Racist not facist.

Strangely enough perhaps, all the Leavers I know - all of them - are not remotely bothered about immigration. Some of them are immigrants themselves.

They were far more interested in releasing the 'strangle hold' on economic and political union, as one put it. Not one of them ever mentioned immigration as a problem. Now I do realise that this may not be representative of all Leavers, but I'm sure they can't be the only ones in the entire country.

I don't believe for an instant that I am the only person in the UK who knows Leavers who aren't remotely bothered about immigration, I really don't.