To be furious if this is true-the freedom of movement

[Rebecca2014]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241

Seriously? majority of people who voted for leave wanted control of our borders, we brought into your story of an Australian style point system now it seems there's still going be freedom of labour movement which is basically the same thing expect they get less legal rights.

I didn't just vote leave for immigration but yes it was a big reason and if I known this, if remain had a better hammered this home I bet MANY leave voters would not have voted the way they did. If anything if this happens, many leave voters will join the remain voters in rage at the lies we been fed. (NHS, Immigration)

I have been a vocal leave supporter on here but now I am feeling pretty scared about what I have voted for. I blame the remain campaign for having an totally shit and ineffective campaign and Cameron should never have been the leader of the remain camp, as majority of people despise him and don't take any notice of what he says.

I'm just leaving this here...Let's take back control!

Except that extreme right wingers do want to repeal it, I wonder why that could be, I am sure they have the best intentions

Because human rights are only for benefit scrounging immigrants (according to a leave voter on TV a couple of days ago). HTH.

It's certainly not the 19th Century - we no longer have a large empire with huge natural resources and labour to exploit. We might think that the Empire was a 'good thing' but I am by no means sure that the colonial people did. My late DF told me of a case during the war, of an Indian gleefully telling him that the War had finished the Empire and that they would soon be independent, which came true only a few years later. But we digress a little.

It it comes to a negotiation, the EU are the ones who will dictate terms, because they are the world's largest trading bloc. We will be the world's 5th now 6th, then 8th ? economy.

throwingpebbles ^Do people honestly believe this: "We will, when forced or in our own good time, negotiate our terms"

Really? It's going to be the most depressingly unbalanced negotiations ever and it's going to be very unlikely we will have any ability to influence the terms. sad^
definition of negotiate: obtain or bring about by discussion.

I don't really need to clarify that David Cameron has already said that he will leave the invoking of Article 50 to his successor. So, yes I do believe that; We will, when forced or in our own good time, negotiate our terms. The EU will then renegotiate or counter with theirs.

God damn you Curlie!!
I fell out of my bed laughing and if I break my bone today, no one is coming over to take care of my destiny for sure and no one is pumping £350 million each week in the NHS neither. So don't hurt me this bad.
Jesus!!

Except that extreme right wingers do want to repeal it, I wonder why that could be, I am sure they have the best intentions

This is so sad, because it was drawn up with noble intentions after the War and we had a huge input into it.

What part of the human rights act would stop a family being removed after six months? If you're thinking of the right to private and family life, that's not the right Act and you'd have a job asserting it after only six months.

'Hope' 'faith' and 'destiny are Vote Leaves favourite flowery words that essentially mean fuck all. I'd genuinely like to be that naive.

BigChocFrenzy. Nothing new there then.....the EU is used to dictating terms. They maybe the worlds largest trading bloc but they are a far cry from democratic.

No, you are right, Peregrina. There was a Canadian finance bod talking about it. Talks started in 2007, the first round were signed off in 2913, the remainder will be signed off in 2017 and the whole deal should be in force by 2020. He also said that talks with the UK alone might not take as long because we will not be as powerful as we were when allied with France, Germany etc, therefore would not be able to negotiate as hard and fast as the EU could. So the deals we struck would probably be better for Canada but not so great for us. And he pointed out that deals with China etc would go even less in our favour. So no free movement, but if we think we are a force to be reckoned with at the negotiating table, we've got another think coming.

@38Cody: says here that minimum time in Netherlands to get citizenship is 5 yrs for adults not married to Dutch citizen/lacking dutch parent/under age 65. For those who take the naturalisation route, they need to be fluent in Dutch before they can naturalise. Kids can get naturalised after 3 yrs uninterrupted residence, but would need a naturalised Dutch parent (I think).

So yes, very determined to get to UK if they went thru all those hoops only because they wanted to go live in UK, instead.

DC has no incentive to make a good deal with the EU.

Normally PMs will be all about their 'legacy'. But his is either a turd or a polished turd.

Why make the effort? Especially when you've just been screwed by the very public you felt you were serving?

I really don't think you understand how negotiating works curlie !!!!

My job is to negotiate complex agreements between large organisations.

You do not want to be the party desperate to secure some kind of deal. The EU will be dictating the terms on a "like it or lump it" basis.

Cate
Hello there !

I have spotted another Leaver I guess. Only a Leaver would be grieved that the largest trading bloc of the world wont listen to us screwing up THEIR trade and THEIR money pumped into OUR Leave areas where our OWN government did not agree to spend OUR money, eh?

Cate - what they could do is basically say that after a certain date all trade deals are null and void. So if we don't get the trade deals in place by then, there won't be any trade. So if the terms weren't to our liking and we drag our feet, we could end up out on our ear with no deals in place. Which would be fun. Ideally that won't happen, obviously, but the idea that we come as a string power with the ability to control the timescale and get what we want out of it is, I suspect, not likely to come to fruition.

I read a quote from Obama that essentially said that when they strike up trade deals it is usually a case of 'here are our terms, like it or lump it' but, when negotiating with the EU, the US see them as a powerful equal which is why they have been hammering it out for so long.

If you think that the UK is a force to be reckoned with then that is very naive. Beggars can't be choosers.

RedToothBrush - Yes, yes, to all that.

It gives me the rage that page after page of threads are vilifying people who were taken in by lies, with the onus being on them to check the facts. It's taken as a given that politicians will lie, but it shouldn't be this way. If John Lewis sold a washing machine and lied about the spec, the purchaser would have plenty of support under the law. Voters have been miss sold something far more important than a washing machine, but it is apparently their own fault. The whole thing is just shoddy.

my apologies if this has been said before, but here's a handy decision chart. The Outists kept telling me that (1) we would still have access to the Single Market because Germany wants to sell us BMWs, and (2) we could keep out the pesky foreigners by closing our borders to them.

Just pick your preferred outcome:

Valentine I am a Remainer.
Those who don't consider referendum #2, # 3 etc practical are not thick, just scrabbling around for a PRACTICAL way to reverse this.
Do try to avoid saying that everyone with different ideas to you is thick (In my case a STEM PhD with 170+ IQ, btw)

A GE would negate this referendum result. Do you understand that ? The referendum is only advisory and has no legal effect until we actually invoke Article 50.
Of course, parliament could do this without a GE, but it would be political suicide atm.

I would much rather every major party at a GE in October had Remain in their manifesto, but if Boris becomes PM, then unless the economy is in total freefall, he can't do a 360 turn. So the Tories will be Leave.
If Corbyn is still Labour Leader, they may be too, but at least the Liberals would be Remain

If a party wins a GE with Remain in their manifesto, then the referendum is dead. They can ignore it.

Wow Rebecca all I can say is serves you right. You leavers brought this on yourselves and the rest of us. Don't you dare blame the remain for the fact that you were too lazy to do your research.

callar
Yes you are absolutely right there. But again, this is the system so far. The Leave voters knew this is the system so far. I wouldn't buy from a seller who lied to me once. And if I don't get a choice of another seller, I would check like a million ones whether before buying again. Which still means that the Leavers have a responsibility.

There is such arrogance, delusion and fucking stupidity about thinking we'll be able to dictate our terms on exiting. We'll have as much chance of exiting with favourable terms as we have of winning Euro 2016. Same level of misguided self belief.

EU will just give us a "don't slam your arse on the way out" and a two fingered salute when we leave.

180 turn

Presumably if a majority of MPs were for Remain then they could vote any legislation down? There justification for doing this might rest on the number of letters expressing dismay that have been received by them from Constituents. A forlorn hope, maybe.