To be furious if this is true-the freedom of movement

[Rebecca2014]

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241

Seriously? majority of people who voted for leave wanted control of our borders, we brought into your story of an Australian style point system now it seems there's still going be freedom of labour movement which is basically the same thing expect they get less legal rights.

I didn't just vote leave for immigration but yes it was a big reason and if I known this, if remain had a better hammered this home I bet MANY leave voters would not have voted the way they did. If anything if this happens, many leave voters will join the remain voters in rage at the lies we been fed. (NHS, Immigration)

I have been a vocal leave supporter on here but now I am feeling pretty scared about what I have voted for. I blame the remain campaign for having an totally shit and ineffective campaign and Cameron should never have been the leader of the remain camp, as majority of people despise him and don't take any notice of what he says.

Please define a bully then.

What saddens me most is the way that the majority of the Leave votes came from older people - people who had low house prices, free university education, decent pensions. And they have robbed our young people of opportunities to avoid huge tuition fees, broaden their horizons by working elsewhere but not too far away, learn new skills and new languages. It's an appalling thing to have done.

They have robbed our young people of opportunities to avoid huge tuition fees? We ARE in the EU and there ARE huge tuition fees!!! Why are people being so disparaging towards older people? They are the ones who lived in the UK before joining the EU and have seen how it has become since joining the EU. They are arguably the best placed people to vote on the EU referendum because they have the experience. I also think that most older people will have voted on behalf of their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren rather for themselves, because they are the ones who will be affected by the decision to leave the EU.

Rebecca should have known the situation as many many of us time after time on here before the vote said if we leave but want a Norway etc deal (most likely possibility) then we have to let people in and out and we are subject to all the EU laws except instead of now having a major say in them we have no say. ]

None of this was hidden in the campaign at all.

(taking up challenge to unpick...)

Rebecca: you were on this thread where someone said exactly that for EU, free trade means free movement of labour. They said:

"If we want to be part of the EEA and trade, part of the deal is free flow of labour within in it. If we leave the EEA to stop mEu migration, I'm not sure what will happen to the current migrants - and no one has yet given and answer. "

You posted on same thread 45 minutes & 4 posts after that, to say:
all they had to do was agree to limit immigration and I bet the remain campaign would won by a large margin

I know threads are long, but not your most careful reading job. Most of your reasons-to-leave EU posts mention immigration.

What saddens me most is the way that the majority of the Leave votes came from older people - people who had low house prices

Sorry, I forgot to add, perhaps one of the reasons that some, and I repeat some, older members of society have voted to leave, is because they would rather like their children, grand children, great grand children etc to have a chance at owning their own home, which at the moment is impossible for a vast majority of young people.

"if you thought about it for two minutes and considered the implications of coming out and voted leave anyway, you're stupid"

Och, culture and history sell us a massive story about taking a huge personal loss for honour or glory or patriotism or god or whatever. You can't hugely blame people for swallowing that. Especially if they, er, fit the demographic more likely to vote Leave.

What saddens me most is the way that the majority of the Leave votes came from older people - people who had low house prices, free university education, decent pensions.

I'm in my mid sixties (and voted Remain.) I have said on other threads that I suspect it was a slightly older age group which actually voted to Leave. It's true that until the oil crisis of the early seventies that house prices were low, but after that there were huge rises in price. There were mortgage famines, and at one time, interest rates were 15% so it wasn't all hunky-dory.
Relatively few went to University, so although they did have grants, it didn't really affect all that many people.
However, there were jobs but even then in the North and Wales, by the early seventies, the heavy industries were beginning to decline.

People of my MILs (age 93) generation, who was almost certainly a Leave person (dependent on the NHS and thinks there are too many immigrants), found it quite hard to get established after the war years. There was a real shortage of accommodation. MIL, despite working for about 30 years only has a small state pension - her firm didn't see fit to provide an occupational pension.

I suspect that the age group which really had it good are the early 70 to early 80s age group. When they were growing up the war was over, the post war reconstruction had started, there were jobs. The "you've never had it so good generation", which Harold McMillan is supposed to have said, but I believe didn't.

Not sure what I am trying to say, but not all older people had it easier. This of course motivates some of them: 'we never had, blah, blah, blah...'

Just wanted to chip in re the older generation - my parents both 75 and both voted Remain (both felt very passionate about it). It's not every pension age person who wanted Out.

curliewhirlie why do you think leaving the EU will bring houses prices down, or enable people to more easily buy houses? How is this connected to the EU?

I 100% back up what CaptainKanga has said as a Welsh remainer.

All i'm hearing is Brexiters saying 'i didn't realize this was going to happen', why the hell not? the information was out there!

I am angry as hell, feeling it's all fucked for my children, the next generation will inherit this mess and 70%of those that voted wanted to remain.

OP, you and many like you, really really should've done some homework before making such a monumental decision.
I am disgusted that you didn't bother.

Boulevard Indonesian for scissors ( and I have a gunt )

I also know a lot of older people (60+) who voted remain, but the demographics are pretty clear.

And Curlie I just looked up tuition fees in Germany and the Netherlands, just for a laugh. For EU students in the Netherlands, it's 1700 Euros. In Germany it's free except for a small annual admin fee. That's a damn sight better than £9k a year, and our young people have just had that option taken away from them. I blame everyone who voted Leave for shafting our young people.

And are you really arguing that high house prices in the UK are down to the EU? Really?

Err Hannan was always explicit about this. You can download his book "Why Vote Leave" on Kindle.

Norway facilitates the free movement of labour with EU member states, not free movement of people. The U.K. economy would suffer without migrant workers, some sectors are unable to source reliable employees from the local, domestic population. EU migrants are net contributors to the UK economy.

I voted leave. I believe that on balance we benefit from the free movement of labour within Europe. I also hope that as a relatively wealthy country still, we continue to offer refuge and opportunity to refugees fleeing conflict and violence in Sudan, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Congo, Syria etc.

With regards to Cameron's rather pitiful re-negotiations with the EU leaders. The deal was that EU migrants that came to the UK would have to find a job within 6 months otherwise they would have to leave; that those who did find a job would have to wait 4 years to have access to FULL, albeit not all, benefits. OK, how on earth do you enforce the rule that those who come here from the EU will be deported if they do not find work within 6 months? Firstly, it will require taxpayers money to put the necessary monitoring and controls in place. Secondly, does anyone honestly think that EU migrants who don't find work within 6 months, will simply pack their bags, board a plane and leave? I kinda suspect that the vast majority will not. They will say that they do not have the funds to afford travel back to their home country; they will simply refuse to leave. What are we going to do, sedate them, tie them up and put them on a plane? Cameron's re-negotiations are simply not worth the paper they are written on.

Why is this not in the referendum section?

TBH it was pretty obvious from doing any amount of reading that the freedom of movement was going to continue. Many of us voting Remain could see right through that lie after doing the most basic of research but were shouted down as liberal lefties...
Sorry you feel your vote is wasted but the lack of research is on you and no one else. Of course there was lies and spin presented as fact. There always is.

Curlie Other countries have had this system for years and they do remove people.

I worked in Germany and had to provide evidence from an employer stating my salary, which had to be above the average German salary then.

If I'd lost my job, my employer would have notified the authorities and I'd have had to quickly find another job.
They are very efficient about chasing up and expelling people, so they rarely have to do so.

In great fairness to the OP, we do have laws about marketing and advertising standards

www.gov.uk/marketing-advertising-law/regulations-that-affect-advertising

Advertising to consumers
The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations mean you can’t mislead or harass consumers by, for example:
including false or deceptive messages
leaving out important information
using aggressive sales techniques

I do think there is a lot to be said, that maybe just maybe this should apply to electoral marketing and advertising...

An Indian colleague who married had to wait the 6 months of his probation period with the firm, until he was allowed to bring his wife from India

Right. So when it was repeatedly pointed out that Norway and Switzerland aren't in the EU but have to have free access of movement to access EU markets, this didn't make you stop and think that perhaps closing our borders wouldn't be as simple and easy as all that? 

This. I personally pointed this out to several people and got told "our deals will be different" There was also a guy on the bbc earlier who voted to "keep out the Muslims" because you know all Muslims are European.

I also pointed out and supplied facts about the fact that we have more Britons leaving to retire or work in the EU than come in that I was clearly lying and it was all propaganda.

I also pointed out that if we truly had total free open borders there wouldn't be a huge refugee camp at Calais full of people that we won't let over the channel.

But you know I'm the stupid one.

Some pp asked about reversing the decision:

I think the only possibility of reversal is if Bojo chooses to call a General Election in October, to seek a mandate as the new PM (he doesn't have to) BEFORE invoking Article 50 to start the leave process:

A party who has always been in favour of the EU, e.g. the Liberals, could put in their manifesto that they would NOT take us out of the EU, since the referendum had no legal force.
If Remainers feel sufficiently strongly, then they can vote on that one occasion for the Liberals (or for Labour, if they also put Remain in their manifesto)

"they will say that they do not have the funds to afford travel back to their home country; they will simply refuse to leave."

yeah, cause people who leave their homes for better prospects/a better life will be happy to stay after 6 months once they no longer qualify to look for work and improve their life

Cause according to EU migrants, just being on UK soil is the end game - it's not about building a meaninful life or anything

Would you do that OP? if you decided say to move your family say to america if you thought you or DP might have a better quality of life there, would you stay if it didn't work out and you no longer qualified to seek work?

If the economy has totally tanked by the time he is PM, Bojo would be looking for a way out of the mess: his plan was to enjoy playing PM, not be a grownup

Fast and loose, Sorry I meant our exports would be cheaper so would sell more.