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Brexit

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Original poster

To think that Boris didn't actually want Brexit to happen

326 replies

hownottofuckup · 25/06/2016 15:04

And that something else was afoot entirely?
Possibly with David's support, or knowledge at least.
There's been quite a bit about the divide between him and his family (not that that means much necessarily)
His propaganda for leaving was ridiculous in the extreme (£350 million a week for the NHS?)
His reaction since the results were announced
I can't help but wonder if he seriously misjudged the voting populace and this was never his intention at all. More a tactical move with a view to securing something else entirely, purely for his own personal gain.
You could never really accuse Boris of being in touch with the 'common people' after all.

OP posts:
minipie · 27/06/2016 10:24

I don't think the Leave vote is going to get overridden by another vote of any kind.

I predict that the Leave vote will remain in place, but that Boris or whoever we end up with will try to do a deal with the EU which is not that different from being in the EU - in particular it will include free trade and free movement of persons. They will portray this deal as being an implementation of the Leave vote because we would no longer be a member of the EU, paying the £ and subject to EU laws except all the ones we've already ratified into UK legislation. But in reality it won't be that different.

That's what I hope anyway... Whether the EU will be up for doing that deal is a different question.

todayitstarts · 27/06/2016 10:39

Yes I increasing think it will not happen. Who is going to set Article 50 in motion? Boris is far too vain to want to go down in history as the one who broke up the EU. And the UK

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 27/06/2016 10:41

I don't agree

he is very ambitious he wouldn't back the leave if he didn't think he had a chance of winning and for him to get the keys to no.10

he is no fool he just acts like one but would imagine we shall see his more serious side from now on there will be less contrived bumbling Boris

todayitstarts · 27/06/2016 10:52

Nobody thought Leave would win, especially Boris.

This is a chilling article Economist

SouperSal · 27/06/2016 10:56

PerspicaciaTick there doesn't need to be any other action than the majority of MPs saying they don't want to do it (and the majority don't). There's nothing legally binding about the referendum result whatsoever.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 27/06/2016 11:05

Why would Boris stand if he didn't think there was a possibility he could win

He was able to get a Labour city to vote for him I think he is very aware of his appeal

You don't really believe he is a bumbling fool do you ?

whois · 27/06/2016 11:06

But in reality it won't be that different.

It will be different, it will be WORSE becase the UK won't have a seat at the table and will have lost our veto on new member state.

JudyCoolibar · 27/06/2016 11:07

He knows he really has no choice but to stand if he is to have any political credibility at all. If he didn't he would be dead in the water.

whois · 27/06/2016 11:08

Why would Boris stand if he didn't think there was a possibility he could win

Becase he wanted to oppose DC and thought that he could get the leave vot up to a decent minority, do what he does best and perform to the people, gather euro-skeptic tory MP support for his leader campaign and waltz in as the next leader.

Now the leadership is a poisened challice - he will be held perosnally responsible for recession, fractured UK etc

JudyCoolibar · 27/06/2016 11:09

The Daily Mail really only functions if its readers are miserable and grumbling, plus it has a major case of Tall Poppy syndrome. Hence its current stance.

MitzyLeFrouf · 27/06/2016 11:10

This is his now or never moment. As Judy said if he dodges it now he'll look like a coward who doesn't have the courage of his convictions.

flippinada · 27/06/2016 11:10

I don't think he's a bumbling fool.

I do think he took a calculated gamble and lost. Remember up until the results started coming in, everyone thought Remain was a done deal.

I reckon he believed there would be a narrow victory for remain and he could then be the noble loser who fought for Britain, then swept in to save the Conservative party and get elected PM at the next election.

todayitstarts · 27/06/2016 11:14

He is far from being a fool. But he miscalculated. Badly. He was in utter shock on Friday. And Cameron check-mated him by refusing to activate Article 50

todayitstarts · 27/06/2016 11:29

asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/Why-Brexit-may-not-happen-after-all?page=2

This article sums up the possibilities of getting round Brexit - I think this is the most likely outcome

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 27/06/2016 12:06

I really don't think he was

Either way it could have been good for him

He is too clever and he knows the power of his appeal I just don't believe he never thought he stood a chance and was in complete shock that he did win

His last performance was that of someone who rallied the masses he knew that and his team knew that i think that might of been what swayed quite a few voters

Peregrina · 27/06/2016 12:15

This article sums up the possibilities of getting round Brexit - I think this is the most likely outcome

One of the most sensible I have read, also containing good advice to some EU leaders to put a sock in it for now, and let Britain begin to sort itself out first.

We haven't yet applied to leave, so it should be Business as Usual - but it ain't!

flippinada · 27/06/2016 12:21

today thanks for that link. Good to see there is a sliver of hope.

flippinada · 27/06/2016 12:29

I'm baffled as to why anyone thought the EU would allow the UK to dictate the terms of exit.

Some people seem rather keen on the abusive relationship analogy so let's run with that theme.

The UK seeking to dictate the terms of Brexit reminds me of a situation which will be unfortunately familiar to a lot of MNers - the spouse who has affair and ends the relationship, then is shocked when the wronged partner takes control and tells them they have to move out now.

RiceCrispieTreats · 27/06/2016 12:42

Some people seem rather keen on the abusive relationship analogy so let's run with that theme.

The UK seeking to dictate the terms of Brexit reminds me of a situation which will be unfortunately familiar to a lot of MNers - the spouse who has affair and ends the relationship, then is shocked when the wronged partner takes control and tells them they have to move out now.

Yes. And prior to that, came 43 years of threats and manipulation, which were placated with all sorts of derogations and opt-outs, lack of empathy for the fact that the other partners in the marriage had strong feelings about preserving a post-war peace project dear to their hearts, and the pursuit of blind self-interest to the detriment of cooperation.

MNHQ
YetAnotherHelenMumsnet · 27/06/2016 12:44

Hi all,

After a great many requests, we're moving the bulk of the referendum threads to the new board here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_

Many of you, understandably, want to discuss this subject at length and in detail - this seems a good way to simultaneously keep AIBU and Chat moving for those who don't wish to participate. Of course, the conversations will still appear in Active.

BonerSibary · 27/06/2016 13:01

I don't think anyone is saying Boris is stupid. Quite the opposite, he's clever. That's the problem. On this occasion, he was a bit too clever. His tactic was actually a very good one, in the context of the assumption that Remain would win a narrow victory. Which let's be honest, is what most people would've bet on if pushed (see bookies odds). It was a gamble, but that's politics.

He needed a way to set himself apart from Osbourne in the 2020 leadership election. Leave presumably wouldn't have reacted any better than Remain have if they'd lost because people don't. See, certain Scottish Yes supporters post 2014 and the Leave bloke who started the petition in anticipation of a loss. UKIP would presumably have won a few more seats in the 2020 GE after some bitter recriminations, we're 47% you can't ignore us type campaigning. So Boris would've been the 'we have to appeal to the Leave voters' candidate. Most likely would've given him a better chance against the decade long Chancellor than being the meeja darling with no appreciable difference in their views.

This seems much more plausible than believing that a pragmatist who's tailored his views on Europe to the audience for most of his career, who didn't declare for Leave until it was dragged out of him, and who's frantically advocating an EU in all but name solution now is actually a genuine, believing Leaver. That is not how people who actually want to leave the EU behave.

Spudlet · 27/06/2016 13:09

The one bright spot in this whole thing has been watching the shine come off Good Old Boris. The man is as opportunistic and as ambitious as any politician you care to mention, but somehow he seems to have escaped serious scrutiny and consequences. Until now.

Let's see him whiff whaff his way out of this one.

flippinada · 27/06/2016 13:25

YY RiceCrispie.

I should also have added that the wronged party has also made it clear that the relationship is now over, and perhaps the one who had the affair should have thought of that...?

Boner I agree. He's quite openly playing down the majority and saying we can still have access to the single market. Doesn't sound at like someone who wants to leave the EU.

RiceCrispieTreats · 27/06/2016 13:29

I also forgot to add the constant blame and scapegoating that is Abuser 101.

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