To think that Boris didn't actually want Brexit to happen

[hownottofuckup]

And that something else was afoot entirely?
Possibly with David's support, or knowledge at least.
There's been quite a bit about the divide between him and his family (not that that means much necessarily)
His propaganda for leaving was ridiculous in the extreme (£350 million a week for the NHS?)
His reaction since the results were announced
I can't help but wonder if he seriously misjudged the voting populace and this was never his intention at all. More a tactical move with a view to securing something else entirely, purely for his own personal gain.
You could never really accuse Boris of being in touch with the 'common people' after all.

I agree OP - something odd going on

I think the Conservative party would be idiots to choose Boris or Gove as the next PM. They wouldn't stand a chance at the general election.

They need someone who wanted to leave as PM, but someone who isn't hated like Boris and Gove.

Personally, Andrea Leadsom seems the obvious choice for them. I hope she wants the job and gets nominated and voted for as their leader.

Do we gain any advantage by being in the EEA rather than a full EU member?

No.
Same access to the single market, same rules to follow, higher cost without the rebate, and no seat at the table.
And it would be damn lucky to get even that.

Plus, my job involves lots of negotiating of agreements. It is never fun trying to negotiate when you are the weaker/more desperate party. Highly unlikely we will get a good deal even when they are done

Absolutely. You can never negotiate the best deal when you're in the weaker position.

This is what people fundamentally do not understand about renegotiating all the trade deals. They seem to think we'll have the freedom to do what we like. We will never get as good terms as we had with EU trade agreements.

I figured that was the case ricecrispie - was wondering whether I'd missed something.

Not really devilish. The reason the Norwegians and Swiss choose continued EEA membership over joining the EU is as much because of a desire to avoid upheaval as anything else. There are other reasons, but that's up there. Markets don't like uncertainty, as we have learned over the past 48 hours.

People don't understand the weaker position stuff because they believe the bollocks about Britain being a great power. They're living in the frigging 19th century.

Yep! I think he decided to go again Cameron for a good debate. He seems to treat politics as a game of chess without realising it's real and affects the whole country!

You reap what you sow!

The man is playing a game.I don't know what it is, but I don't think it quite went to plan yesterday. He looked as stunned as the rest of the country.

This

I agree. I thinking oh shit, this wasn't meant to happen.

I was posting things on MN & elsewhere about lack of British people with expertise to negotiate trade deals. Response was, We're "the 5th biggest economy in the world" (oops, sorry, 6th now) so obviously everyone will fall over selves to court our £££.

So, where are all the furriners demanding great new trade deals with UK?

Lower down the commercial/legal food chain, will other contracts need renegotiation? Will suppliers and customers be able to say "x no longer applies" if/when the UK is no longer within the EU?

I still think honestly, reluctantly, Boris Johnson chose principle. I think he did it fairly unwillingly - a Tory consensus feel-good politician by birth! But he did it. For that credit where credit due. I truly believe that.

Yanbu. They looked like they were shitting themselves yesterday.

Boris as a principled man, eh? Read this piece by Max Hastings, who knows him well, and see how principled he seems. It's originally from the Mail, just in case people think it's the Guardian with an agenda:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/10/boris-johnson-unfit-to-be-prime-minister

Agreeing.

Where are they? The victory bus ride is surely overdue?

The Guardian have written he is "unfit to be prime minister"? Quelle surprise.

At least he had the guts to make a choice and stand by it. Not like most politicians, Blair, and the whole liberal, vague, pointless (but frighteningly powerful) crew ...

I actually wonder if this was all a Machiavellian plot of Boris. I don't believe he's really anti eu. I reckon he's planning on being pm and he'll fudge some kind of deal where UK officially leaves eu but remains in in all but name. Nothing will actually change apart from less negotiating power in eu and a few less rights. At least that's what I'm hoping now.

truevoice, read the article carefully. The Guardian uses the phrase 'unfit to be prime minister', yes, but the context is that the piece, which is not by a Guardian writer but by Max Hastings. He does not explicitly say 'unfit to be prime minister' himself but his sentiments are such that it's clear to see where the Guardian drew their subhead from, and that it's justified.

I normally wouldn't click but I just had great fun reading the comments on one of the Daily Mail articles.
It seems buyers' remorse had kicked in big-time.

I want him to be PM. He got us into this mess, well him and Dave, so he can do his best to get us out and deal with the consequences.

Principle? Ha!
Has anyone ever been more disloyal to their party leader?
And that is why he now won't be PM.

I hear ya' Sapphire. I do take character into account,and I'm sure he's not perfect, but sometimes we have to have the confidence of what we really believe, despite our imperfections, non? None of us are perfect. Are you? But I like principle, and I believe he did this, I really do. Like Farage (who let us not forget, though cross, has lost his MEP job, his raison d'etre) but he did it for what he believed. Not what he thought he "could get out of It".

Sometimes you have to be disloyal, SisterMoon, for what you truly (and maybe reluctantly) believe.