PETITION FOR A SECOND REFERENDUM - 1 million + signatures already

[GertrudeBelle]

A parliamentary petition has been created calling for a second referendum. As I type, it already has 1,061,466 signatures and the number is growing rapidly so it will have to be taken seriously.

I would urge everyone who is concerned about the consequences of yesterday's result to sign it. It only takes a minute. Get your friends and family to sign too.

Link here:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

There's also a map showing the location of the signatories. There are some key Remain territories which don't seem to have picked this up - particularly Scotland and Northern Ireland. Please spread the word. Map here:

petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=131215

Not reverse the results necessarily, but absolutely have some influence on proceedings.

Yes, if the facts were made clear in advance of a second referendum, and the result was won by 60% of the electorate, I would accept the outcome and move on. That would be a fairer enactment of democracy. But with a 4% margin, it's not enough to say it's all a done deal and we should get over it. If anything, the whole idea of democracy directly contests that "shut up and put up" attitude.

The Lib Dems are a force to be reckoned with in local government. Tim Farron of the Lib Dems has promised the following regarding the next GE

'Liberal Democrats have always believed that Britain should be outward facing, collaborating with other countries to tackle global challenges. Our membership of the European Union allows us to do that.
Britain has now voted to leave. The margin of victory was small and risks dividing our country. We must respect the outcome of the referendum in how we talk about moving forward.

We also have to understand that for many people this was not just a vote about Europe. It was also a howl of anger at politicians and institutions who they feel are out of touch and have let them down. Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and Michael Gove won this campaign by deliberately deceiving voters. They offered cheap slogans and easy answers that they knew they could never keep. Their hollow pledge of £350 million for the NHS has already unravelled and people will be right to feel angry that they have been let down again.

We must also remember that there are many, many European citizens who have made Britain their home. We are immensely grateful for the contribution they make to our country and we are committed to ensuring they can remain here and feel safe here.

I believe our country’s future is still best served by our membership of the European Union, despite its flaws. Millions of our fellow citizens believe that. I also believe many of those people share our vision of a country that is tolerant, compassionate and positive about Britain’s role for good in the world. They share our vision of a country that wants to repair its divisions by working hard together, not by offering cheap slogans.

That is why I want to make clear that the Liberal Democrats will fight the next election on a clear and unequivocal promise to restore Britain’s prosperity and role in the world, with the United Kingdom in the European Union, not outside it.

At the same time, we must address the difficult issues that this referendum has raised about Europe and our country – but with real answers, not cheap slogans.

Since the result of the referendum became known, thousands of new members have joined our party. I encourage you all to reach out to family, friends, colleagues and acquaintances and encourage them to join us to build that Britain together.

Best wishes,

Tim

Tim Farron MP
Leader of the Liberal Democrats

Vote Lib Dems!!

"I speak of some of my facebook friends who are old work colleagues: they post constantly about new petitions and updates to the petitions.

One is Slovakian who has been here less than 2 years. You get the idea. He had absolutely no right to vote in the matter and has a vested interest in the outcome and is lobbying everyone to over turn it. He doesnt stop posting."

What's his name? Or do you only slag off your mates anonymously, like a coward?

Given that, in general, whichever party forms a government gains less votes than the major opposition party due to constituency boundaries, the method of counting was fairer.

I voted to remain, I live in France and, as our income is in £, will be significantly worse off following a Brexit. Still, that's life, and the poorly-concealed racism of the French is much in evidence since the result.

On Friday night, I was demanded to show my passport in a restaurant, and the same thing happened in a shop on Saturday. Half-joking maybe, but there nonetheless.

Despite having voted to remain, to paraphrase Faulty Towers, I don't really fancy the idea of Angela Merkel jackbooting her way over the whole of Europe, and most of the French don't either. In effect, the deutschemark has become the Euro, and, sooner or later the German taxpayers will have had enough of propping economies that have refused to reform as the UK economy did post-1979, and the the German economy did post-reunification.

And? For all you know some (not all) of these could be from Brits overseas

Well someone is spamming from the Vatican for starters as the population there isn't that big.

The Lib Dems are a force to be reckoned with in local government.

Not around here they aren't. They lost many of their seats.

Ignoring a government petition with over 3 million signatures would be a true travesty of democracy.

really?
really?
do you not see what you are saying?

• a large majority of eligible voters voted
• we don't know why 28% of those eligible didn't vote, but presumably remaining in the EU wasn't important enough to vote - so we can assume that they are neutral to the idea of stay / leave.
• a majority of those voting voted to leave

those voting to leave, and those who don't care enough - i.e. the total who can be assumed to be content with a leave vote is c. 65% of the eligible voters - nearly double those who actively wished to remain...

• by the nature of their choosing not to vote the 28% gave a large support to whichever camp won in accepting this as democracy... they said they weren't personally bothered, but happy to accept the process...

so we already have a clear mandate for the leave result just in this result - a mandate of nearly 2:1

now you want a petition of c. 3million to overturn the democratic result?

• 3 million v. c. 45million eligible voters - about 6.7% of those eligible to vote think that they have the right to overturn a decision voted for or accepted by 65% of the eligible vote - why?
• 3 million out of c. 16million who voted remain - so c. 19% of those who voted remain - i.e. over 80% of those who voted remain accept that it was a democratic process

then we need to look at accuracy:

• the UK has a fantastic track record in voting without corruption or interference in the due process - i.e. we know pretty accurately that the vote as recorded = the vote as cast = the will of the people - yes, there may be some minor issues on either side - but not statistically significant
• then we have an online petition which has miraculously been signed by over 4,800% of the vatican city - i.e. every single person in the vatican city (presumably including the Pope!) not only thinks we should hold the referendum again - but they are so determined that they have signed the petition more than 48 times each!!!
• South Georgia & the Sandwich Islands with a permanent population of 0 has somehow still managed to sign it over 3,000 times... North Korea, well over 20,000 times...
• www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/concern-as-online-call-for-second-brexit-vote-gains-more-than-39/ is worth reading :)

It really wouldn't be difficult to set up a bot to sign it automatically - yes there is an email verification, but that is easy enough to automate...

And you still think that we should take any notice of what may go down in history as the world's biggest spammed petition!?!

Sorry, this petition is from a dispassionate perspective a deeply sad part of the current landscape, it is a shame that we felt that we needed to have a vote at all - I would have preferred to see a stronger position and better negotiation in the EU, but the EU was playing a power game, so they called our bluff... Once we had the vote, we had little rational choice but to vote out - when a bully calls your bluff, to acquiesce simply gives them more power... now we have voted leave we need to be strong as a country to move forward - to build fair laws into our country so we don't lose what was good in the EU, to build trade relationships with the rest of Europe so that we can carry on as before, a strong trading partner - what we do not need is this kind of irrational and divisive approach... At the moment it seems that some of the remain campaigners will do anything they can to see the country fail - simply so they can say we would have been better off in the EU - very very sad...

The petition should be removed...

Ignoring a government petition with over 3 million signatures would be a true travesty of democracy.

Ignoring the views of 17m people olds also.

Timestamp analysis shows there were over 1 million signature added in a 20 minute period Livingtotheful - the petition is being spammed by bots and there is also a suggestion the file/code itself was altered.

Bots like this one are used to post fake signatures: - pastebin.com/GCWUnyNh

There is every reason to assume the majority are not genuine signatures.

A lot of the Leave voters have turned out to be confused, frightened, semi-literate dullards who didn't have a scooby what they were voting for.

Just thought of another group of people that could change their minds if it went to a second referendum - what about all those people that couldn't be bothered to research the EU etc etc so stuck with the status quo and maybe (or maybe not) are now having a rethink especially in light of how the EU are behaving subsequently? (that could be across any age group but more likely I would think the younger generation and I don't mean that in a derogatory way)

'Ignoring a government petition with over 3 million signatures would be a true travesty of democracy'.

'Ignoring the views of 17m people olds also'.

As would ignoring the views of nearly half of the voters who voted to remain. Democracy was never about 'tyranny of the majority'.

Of course nobody is saying that those who voted 'out' should be ignored; but this is a massive, irreversible decision which have repercussions for many many people into the future and has implications both within and outside the UK. There is a huge demand for change, people are legitimately angry and have serious grievances which need to be addressed; but if we take the step to leave the EU it could be some of those very people who suffer the most.

3 million people have voted for the end of democtracy in Britain, and you think opting out of the EU is scary!!

No, three million people have petitioned for another VOTE.

How is that undemocratic?

And that half of those who have signed aren't even entitled to a vote is even more scary!!

this is a massive, irreversible decision which have repercussions for many many people into the future and has implications both within and outside the UK. Yes, that's why there was a referendum.

People can shout all they like about Leavers not having known what the hell they voted for, it makes no difference, they voted for what they believed in, no matter how deluded any Remainer thinks that is.

There was a referendum, we, the UK as a whole, voted to leave.

Now... can we all just get in with the reality of that? Whether that is looking for real ways to override it, like Nicola Sturgeon, or real ways of implemeting it, like IDS... anything other than perpetually pissing in the wind!

No, three million people have petitioned for another VOTE.

How is that undemocratic?

As a petition it isn't. If it is used to reverse the referendum it would be! Happy now?

A lot of the Leave voters have turned out to be confused, frightened, semi-literate dullards who didn't have a scooby what they were voting for.

:D one thing you can say for the British (I assume you are British?!) is that their sense of humour is always present!

However, just in case you are actually serious!

• It would be difficult to be confused over a question so simple that you have only two choices, however I dug deep into my reserves, thought about it, fasted, prayed and cogitated and finally I randomly picked an answer by tossing a coin (Euro natch.!)

• Not sure why anyone would have been frightened, snakes, spiders, and in my case I am not very good with heights, but while there is an argument that snakes are present in the EU corridors of power, and clearly the EU spider's web was entangling all who came into contact, in reality there was not much of a height issue in this vote - so I didn't feel particularly frightened! Actually for those interested there is some great research on fear / being frightened and how it affects our bodies and minds with increased adrenaline and an ability to focus - so there is an argument that in fear we become more accurate!

• semi-literate - a difficult one to know how to answer, at one level the EU had become like a good novel - not much Mills & Boons / Jilly Cooper / 50 shades of grey, but plenty of Terry Pratchet, and other forms of fantasy... - at another level, really the voter only had to understand 4 words:
• EU
• Remain
• Yes
• No

Now in my Peter & Jane reading scheme those were all learned by book 2b so even though I might be considered semi-illiterate - the semi bit means that I was fortunately competent enough to understand all 4 words at the same time...

• dullards - mmm not sure I am clever enough to understand this, but I believe that in its development of meaning since its earliest known usage, it has tended to mean stupid and boring... Stupid - perhaps, in believing that all those who voted understood democracy, clearly there are some sulking in their rooms who don't! Dullards, definitely not - the status quo is often seen as boring, the times ahead will be interesting, turbulent, exciting, strange, unknown, ultimately we hope successful - all of that, but never boring!

• scooby? nope you have got me with your down with the lads, street culture awareness, I looked it up: www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scooby and can see that it could be a dog, or even a car (neither of which I have, you are right), or burning bits of bud inhaled while chiefing - whatever that means... or even that I am okay with something... mmm, I think that you must be confused - no, sorry, not a scooby what you mean!

so, all I can say is you clearly don't have a clue what you are posting and any vote you may or may not have submitted should be destroyed on clear grounds of confusion if nothing else!

Obviously I'm not saying that the petition should overrule or be given the same credence as the referendum. Absolutely not. But it shouldn't be brushed aside, either. It's testament to the fact that people aren't confident in such a humongous step, especially now that campaigns are unravelling & the government abandoning ship left, right, and centre. Things have come to light since the polling booths closed and the situation calls for a revision - this definitely doesn't mean that I think the 17million who voted leave should be ignored. Things will change as a result of this referendum; that is inevitable.

You can't just assume that the 28% of non voters weren't bothered about the outcome/can be lumped in with the Leave voters. Any number of reasons might have prevented them from getting to the polling stations - like the London floodings, illness, transport issues etc. And surely if complacency's anything to go by, the non-voters advocated to keep things as they were through neglecting to pursue change. But we can't pretend to know how the result would have settled if the turnout was higher, so the fact remains unchanged that victory was narrow & needs to be carefully considered in light of everything else.

The petition is being investigated for fraud

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407

Not sure if I have missed someone else linking to this... but here you go!

*three million people have petitioned for another VOTE.

How is that undemocratic?*

because it is calling for he result of a democratic referendum to be overturned!!

"so, all I can say is you clearly don't have a clue what you are posting"

I said that a lot of the Leave voters were semi-literate racist dullards. Why you took this is a personal attack is baffling, but if the cap fits..

time4chocolate - If a second referendum was called and people who'd initially wanted to Remain then voted out, they'd be making an informed choice to do so. It's the number of decisions that have been made without an understanding of the situation that's screwing everything now. I know of a fair few Leave voters who've signed the petition in panic having had no idea what they'd voted for.

I wonder why so many people on MN hate white working class people? core labour voters really. & this is supposed to be a left leaning site.