to think the Remainers aren't going to take this lying down and we won't leave

[SybilEngineer]

A million plus more people voted leave than remain but still over 16 million voted in. And many of the people this will affect - the under 18s - didn't get a say.

The majority of our elected representatives want us to remain as does our capital city.

The EU wants us to remain and once the leaders have stopped throwing their toys around they will realise they need to reform the EU and make changes that will keep UK and all the other eurosceptic people in.

Today has been a body blow for us remainers but, we're shot of Cameron, so we can re-group and start the fight to remain in the EU but with changes that much of Europe wants.

And just in case 'non experts' are not allowed to comment on what the 'experts' habe said I have a degree in economics.

Talking of lies - what happened to the emergency budget George Osborne threatened. Just a lie to scare us all?

It is Sunday. We've not seen him since the result. Maybe he is working on that.

It has hardly been weeks. Jeez.

What I find interesting ... is that the Remainers don't believe in democracy. Which is consistent, now that I think of it, with their contentment that rules be made by unelected leaders in Brussels

And had it been the other way round and 48% of the country had voted to leave, you wouldn't have expected a demand for a second referendum? UKIP would have shut up shop and said they were wrong after all? We would never have heard anything about eurosceptiscism ever again?

You think in another situation where things had been thrown into such uncertainty people would have just said "I'm sure every thing is going to be OK. I'm not sure who is in charge but they must know what they are doing".

This has been a bitter, in some cases very nasty, fight that has split the country down the middle.

In a democracy like the UK, minority voices are not silenced and you are hearing the voices of a very, very, very large minority.

Practically I don't see how another referendum could be called, but what other reaction would you expect? If nothing else in calling for another referendum or independence for London people are making their voices heard. That is how our democracy works.

I don't believe that it is democracy to ask the electorate to make a very complex decision, on misleading propaganda, that really should be decided by politicians elected because they have the expertise to handle such decisions.

gonetosea yes! That's it in a nutshell. The other key point about a representative democracy is that once elected the politicians are still held accountable for their actions.

Rubbish gone I agree it's incredibly complex and few people, even really intelligent people can necessarily understand or foresee every consequence, but the same could be said for every general election to be honest. You either support democracy or you don't.

"The EU wants us to remain and once the leaders have stopped throwing their toys around they will realise they need to reform the EU and make changes that will keep UK and all the other eurosceptic people in. "

I disagree with this OP. I don't believe Junker will compromise. He has said he won't. I think this is a mistake by him. He wants closer unity. He has stated so. The U.K. Doesn't.
More unity and non negotiation are 2 reasons why I can't see this working.

I really wish it could work. But I can't see it. I suspect the Eu may fall apart soon.

I think what has been most enlightening about this, is the number of people who don't actually support democracy from MPs to newsreaders. The push to ignore the democratic process is frightening.

Junker IS NOT IN CHARGE

He doesn't get to dictate what we do. Ffs

what happened was a hysterical, morally dubious mendacious campaign. Call it democracy if you want. I call it a Tory in house coup d'etat. Playing hell with your future and your neighbours.

Democracy was highjacked by politicians lying for their own benefit and turning on their pledges the minute the poll stations closed.

How can you expect the end result to be adequate if the input was flawed?

I believe in democracy, I've lived in counties where there was none, the referendum was not an example of how democracy works.

Yes char. The idea of democracy was hijacked and exploited. The public didn't make a true decision because they were given false information. I'm amazed anyone thinks this was a freely made decision of the people. If voters responding to lies is democracy then I'll eat my hat.

No one is saying ignore the ref, just that we should should have a second ref on whether voters still want to keep with their original decision now that so many leave 'pledges' have been torn up.

Leavers don't want this, I suspect, because they knew that they won by a majority because there was a large bulk of voters who thought they were helping the NHS and sending immigrants home, who wouldn't vote leave now this has been revealed as lies.

There should be a second referendum on the terms of the exit - will leavers still vote to leave the EU if the exit plan involves still allowing free movement of people, which it will?

I don't think a referendum in which 'taking back control of our borders' was made into such a big rallying cry is a mandate for an exit where our borders remain very much open.

There needs to be a GE to ask the people on what terns they wish to leave.

The Tories have no mandate for that. They were elected on a manifesto in which we were part of the EU. IDS was making all kinda of pledges today and I thought hang on mate, who are you to change the manifesto unilaterally?

Same for Labour. What possible mandate do they have to support or oppose the terms of leaving? None.

In my head the second referendum would be 'leave the EU with this deal, or not leave the EU', so the proposed deal would be the only thing on the table, no renegotiations needed after, it would be that or staying. It would be up to whoever to say 'this is the best that we can get, are you still up for it?'.

The lack of negotiations before Article 50 is a big problem (and one apparently unforeseen by Leave), so at the moment nothing is happening. Well I say nothing, I imagine lots is happening, the formal negotiations are just the figureheads coming around to nail down what the actual negotiators have already sorted.

The new Tory leader will be a Leave supporter

You'd think, but Teresa May was officially Remain, and it's probably her or the currently invisible Boris.

I think this should be the way.

New Ref on the terms, and get the bloody campaign right this time.

And I'm European BTW, properly, born and bred in Central Europe and even I leaned toward Leaving for a while, until I saw the lies.

OK, so maybe not deal but terms.

There will be way to word this.

I read some German papers this morning.

They are in no way forgetting they still need us, for support, as a market.
We can use that, if we're clever.

But a firm proposal comes after Article 50.

Yes, this is where Leave fucked up.

Here is what Dominic Cummings, the mastermind behind the Leave campaign said last year:

For example, a lot of people have been saying that as soon as there is a Leave vote then the Article 50 process begins straight away. Completely wrong. In fact that would be like putting a gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger. No-one in their right mind would begin a legally defined two-year maximum period to conduct negotiations before they actually knew, roughly speaking, what this process was going to yield. So we must explain to the public: “Don’t worry. Straight after you go there is not going to be a huge eruption. Legally nothing changes the next day. A new government team is going to sit down with the EU and figure out what this new relationship should look like legally. That will be a big thing before any formal process happens.” There is a widespread assumption that we have to use the Article 50 process, and that has a lot of risks. That is not true. We do not have to use the Article 50 process. There is a whole set of things like that that will come out during the course of the referendum.

BAGEHOT: In the event of an Out vote do you think the government would seek to hold another referendum, on the terms of Brexit?

DOMINIC CUMMINGS: I think that is a distinct possibility, yes. It’s obviously not something that we can force. We’re a campaign group. But I think it is perfectly possible that leadership candidates to replace David Cameron will say that they think there are good grounds for a new government team to offer the public a voice on what the deal looks like. And we obviously wouldn’t oppose that, if that’s what senior politicians want to offer. I think there’s a strong democratic case for it. There’s also the issue of the profound loss of trust that the establishment has suffered over the past 20-30 years. All parties have told lies about this subject, whether it’s John Major and David Cameron or Gordon Brown, Tony Blair and Nick Clegg. People have repeatedly promised referendums then not held referendums. So given that, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if leadership candidates to replace Cameron said: we need a mechanism so people can have confidence in what we say.

Well no, which is why Leave are currently in hiding.

Juncker saying "get the fuck on with it" wasn't in the plan. Europe was supposed to be saying 'nooooo don't go' at this point.
And as far as Boris is concerned, we were supposed to have voted remain at this point and he'd be polishing up his bid for leadership appearing on the One Show magnanimous in defeat.