100 reasons to vote to leave the EU

[BritBrit]

A long list of 100 reasons to leave the EU

1-Control immigration & introduce a skills based system
2-The UK Parliament makes our law not the EU
3-Sign our own trade deals
4- Save £55 million a day in fees
5- Regain control of UK fishing waters
6- We will not be signed up to the TTIP
7- We can stop future EU members e.g. Turkey/Albania/Serbia get free movement to the UK
8-Withdraw from the Common Agriculture Policy (CAP) so we don’t pay for EU farms
9-Cheaper food-being outside the CAP provides cheaper food prices
10-Reopen UK fisheries creating thousands of jobs
11-Cheaper energy prices-we can scrap EU green laws
12-Scrap the EU’s Common external tariff which increases the cost of imports from outside the EU (cheaper goods & food)
13-Introduce a British Bill of Rights-EU members must sign up to ECtHR
14- No chance of the UK joining the Euro in the future
15-The UK won’t be forced to join an EU army with UK armed forces under Brussels control
16-We will not have to bailout Euro countries & we just did Greece
17-We can use the money we pay the EU on Britain e.g. NHS
18-Protect UK culture & national identity
19-The UK would be an independent sovereign nation
20-We can repeal EU regulations holding back business particularly small firms
21- The UK can take back our own seat at the World Trade Organisation
22-It will be easier to crackdown on tax avoidance because EU free movement of money allows firms to avoid tax
23-Outside the EU we can require immigrants to pay for NHS treatment
24- The EU is undemocratic-Parliament will be fully accountable to Brits again
25- We could introduce a law for British jobs for British workers
26- We can charge EU students international university fees for using UK universities
27-We can stop immigrants claiming tax credits, social housing & benefits
28- The EU forbids state aid so the UK is unable to support UK industry e.g. steel
29- EU trade, when we joined the EU was 37% of world GDP it is now 17%
30- The UK is the world 5th biggest economy & EU’s biggest export market
31- The EU undermines UK democracy because we are constantly outvoted by other EU nations
32- The EU has not had its accounts signed off for 20 years
33-EU students would not be entitled to UK student loans, currently they haven’t repaid £40m
34-After Brexit,controlled immigration will increase wages & take pressure of public services
35-The trade deficit between the EU & UK is almost £92 billion a year in the EU’s favour
36- The EU waste billions of pounds of British money on useless projects.
37- We can reintroduce UK passports without the EU mark on them
38- If an EU nation gives a non EU immigrant their passport they get unrestricted access to the UK
39-The UK can act as an example to other eurosceptic EU nations & encourage them to quit e.g. Holland/France
40- The UK can control our own VAT currently the EU set the bands
41- The UK only gets 49p back from the EU for every £1 we put in
42- The EU is a threat to the UK finance sector
43- The average British household would be £1000 a year better off after Brexit
44- The UK has under 10% of MEP’s & only 1 vote of 28 in the Council
45- Open Europe says the top 100 EU rules cost the UK £33 billion to implement
46- Stop immigrants claiming child benefits for children that don’t even live in the UK
47-The UK is not able to take skilled non EU immigrants because we are overwhelmed by unskilled EU immigrants
48- Between 2009 & 2014 the UK voted against 576 EU proposals in the EU Parliament, 485 became law (84%)
49-The EU took the UK to court 23 times between 2007-2011 for not implementing EU law
50- The EU currently decide 75% of the laws affecting Britain
51-The UK lost our veto over many legal areas in the Lisbon Treaty, Qualified Majority Voting was introduced meaning the Eurozone can impose laws on the UK
52- Democratic inconsistency- the UK has 1 MEP for every 880,000 people. In Luxembourg they get 1 MEP for every 71,000 people.
53- The UK has failed to block any measure it opposed in the EU Council for 19 years since 1996.
54- Last year the EU demanded the UK pay an extra £1.7 billion to the budget & David Cameron paid.
55-EU treaties provide on Brexit we will have 2 years to negotiate a new deal
56-Leaving the EU will help solve the housing crisis because immigration will be controlled & rent prices will go down
57 Protect the greenbelt-immigration has meant we have to build on our greenbelt to provide housing
58-Stop school overcrowding & spend UK resources on educating British kids-immigration has led to massive class sizes.
59-British students are still able to study abroad because the Erasmus programme includes non EU nations.
60-The EU is responsible for many of the recent floods in the UK because the stops the UK from dredging rivers by the Water Framework Directive
61-The British people do not elect the various EU President, the EU Council or the EU Commission
62-The EU has suggested that it wants to take The UK and France’s UN Security Council seats
63- The EU controls the tariffs the UK has to put on goods from non EU nations which is damaging trade particularly with Commonwealth nations.
64-The UK spends millions each year on translators (courts/hospitals/ schools etc) for EU immigrants
65-The EU is set to expand further in the future meaning the UK will lose more influence & have to open borders to more people
66-10,000 EU employees earn more than the British Prime Minister & we are paying for it
67-The EU courts have recently overruled UK tax law & ordered the UK to pay back big business taxes they paid, estimated to reach £50 billion
68- David Cameron’s ‘renegotiation’ achieves nothing & has not been adopted by the EU, it can be ignored by the EU Parliament or overruled by the EU courts
69- The EU spends £500 million a year of taxpayer money creating pro EU propaganda
70-The British people cannot vote out the leaders of the EU like we can a Westminster government
71-Policies widely supported by the public e.g. railway renationalisation are illegal whilst we are in the EU
72- The EU allows the live importation of animals, the UK cannot ban it
73-The EU Clinical Trials Directive 2004 has ruined the UK research sector, in 2000 the UK conducted 6% of all trials, in 2010 it was 1.4%
74-The EU fine UK universities if they do not fly the EU flag, the University of Northampton was fined £56,000
75-The fundamental aim of the EU is to create a European superstate, the UK will not be a nation but a region controlled by the EU
76-Outside the EU the UK can create a free trade deal with the EU to maintain free trade
77-If the UK votes to stay in the EU, it will be taken by the EU as permission from the British people to do whatever they want and impose more integration on us
78-The EU have just delayed the next EU budget until after the EU referendum, expect more massive increases
79-The European Arrest Warrant allows Brits to be taken to other EU countries without a trial
80-The EU makes a terrorist attack more likely because we cannot stop EU immigrants entering the UK e.g. one of the Paris attackers travelled to the UK
81-During the recent immigration crisis millions have entered the EU, as soon as they get an EU passport they have the right to enter the UK & use our NHS/schools/benefits etc
82-The EU is not responsible for peace in Europe, Nato is, for instance during the Balkan war it was the USA & UK that led efforts to stop it not the EU
83-All the groups who are telling the UK to stay in the EU have vested interests in the EU e.g. the IMF bailout Greece & those organisations all said the UK had to join the Euro
84-The EU spends millions moving operations to Strasbourg from Brussels that UK taxpayers pay for
85-Worker rights DO NOT depend on the EU e.g. the UK had holiday rights in 1938, Equal Pay in 1970 & race/sex discrimination laws introduced before we joined
86-The UK has better maternity rights than EU law provides providing more time off & better maternity pay
87- When the UK joined the EU we had 18% of MEP’s in the EU Parliament, we now have only 9.7%
88- The EU is currently planning to take control of UK taxes with a vote in May giving every EU citizen an EU tax identification number
89- The European Health Card (which includes non EU nations) has been used by immigrants living in the UK to claim for treatment in their home countries we pay for
90- 800,000 UK jobs have been advertised on an EU jobs website advertising our jobs to EU immigrants, more jobs than all other EU nations combined
91- We cannot let more skilled Commonwealth immigrants into the UK who we have more in common with because we have open borders to unskilled EU immigrants
92- When the UK joined the EU we had 17% of the vote in the EU Council, we now only have 8%
93- If the UK quits the EU it will encourage other EU nations to also leave
94- From 2005-2014 the NHS paid £1.3 billion for EU immigrants giving birth on the NHS
95- The EU has just voted for new Port Regulations effectively seizing control of UK ports
96- The UK is still a member of other international organisations e.g. the UN, WTO, NATO where we can work with other nations & protect our interests
97- Tory Minister has admitted that UK governments use the EU to pass unpopular laws they couldn’t get passed by the UK Parliament
98- The UK effectively has open borders to the entire world because any non EU national who marries an EU citizen can come to the UK
99-The EU is never going to reform, David Cameron tried & failed to get major reform
100- Vote to Leave and David Cameron & George Osborne will have to resign & be out of power

If British culture is so important why do the vast majority of those in arts, fashion, theatre, film, literature and music back Remain? Including JK Rowling who has probably brought more money into our economy than any other individual of the past 20 years.

Or are Cheryl Baker, Liz Hurley and Keith Chegwin going to provide all our cultural needs?

Its possible to argue against each of these:

1-Control immigration & introduce a skills based system

I think this might change if we stay in the EU given the impetus from the UK. It might be free movement if the population density is less than xxx for example

2-The UK Parliament makes our law not the EU

The UK parliament under this conservative government has made laws that have made UK citizens lives much worse e.g. legal aid, education

3-Sign our own trade deals

I don't hear there is much problem with trade deals at the moment. There is likely to be a huge problem getting as good trade deals as we have at the mometn

4- Save £55 million a day in fees

Which will be given straight to the bankers or attempting to plug the hole in the economy opened up by bankers

5- Regain control of UK fishing waters

Will fish stocks be as protected as they are now?

6- We will not be signed up to the TTIP

We are likely to be signed up to something much worse as we will have less power

7- We can stop future EU members e.g. Turkey/Albania/Serbia get free movement to the UK

I think this is likely to happen if we stay in and Turkey is not joining any time soon

8-Withdraw from the Common Agriculture Policy (CAP) so we don’t pay for EU farms

We are not likely to pay for our own farms either or for conservation

9-Cheaper food-being outside the CAP provides cheaper food prices

More expensive food from tariffs on imports

10-Reopen UK fisheries creating thousands of jobs

Not enough fish left for 1000s of jobs

11-Cheaper energy prices-we can scrap EU green laws

If we don't combat climate change what legacy are we leaving to future Britons?

12-Scrap the EU’s Common external tariff which increases the cost of imports from outside the EU (cheaper goods & food)

Likely to be poorer quality food

13-Introduce a British Bill of Rights-EU members must sign up to ECtHR

UK wrote the ECtHR

14- No chance of the UK joining the Euro in the future

No change of the UK joining the Euro anyway

15-The UK won’t be forced to join an EU army with UK armed forces under Brussels control

No chance of this happening

16-We will not have to bailout Euro countries & we just did Greece

We will probably end up poorer than many EU countries. We might still decide to bail them out because it would be in our economic interests

17-We can use the money we pay the EU on Britain e.g. NHS

Or we can give tax breaks to the rich...

18-Protect UK culture & national identity

Indeed Scotland will become independent. I have not seen that England is becoming more European

19-The UK would be an independent sovereign nation

With much less power

20-We can repeal EU regulations holding back business particularly small firms

We will be subject to more dodgy goods

21- The UK can take back our own seat at the World Trade Organisation

Again one small voice which is likely to back big corporations

22-It will be easier to crackdown on tax avoidance because EU free movement of money allows firms to avoid tax

We could deal much more effectively with tax avoidance now

23-Outside the EU we can require immigrants to pay for NHS treatment

Immigrants as 2nd class citizens

24- The EU is undemocratic-Parliament will be fully accountable to Brits again

EU has elections??

25- We could introduce a law for British jobs for British workers

Our productivity is bad enough as it is

26- We can charge EU students international university fees for using UK universities

Universities likely to lose out due to backwards looking UK and loss of research funding

27-We can stop immigrants claiming tax credits, social housing & benefits

I think this is already being done

28- The EU forbids state aid so the UK is unable to support UK industry e.g. steel

They appear to be supporting the steel industry

29- EU trade, when we joined the EU was 37% of world GDP it is now 17%

Yes the rest of the world is growing in power that is why the EU countries need to stick together

30- The UK is the world 5th biggest economy & EU’s biggest export market

After Brexit there would be trade barriers with our nearest neighbours which would be detrimental to both sides

31- The EU undermines UK democracy because we are constantly outvoted by other EU nations

Fortunately given that David Cameron has been supporting TTIP

32- The EU has not had its accounts signed off for 20 years

Don't like to think of the state of our accounts after brexit

33-EU students would not be entitled to UK student loans, currently they haven’t repaid £40m

UK students would not be entitled to travel to Europe via Erasmus and look and understand different cultures

34-After Brexit,controlled immigration will increase wages & take pressure of public services

Wages will fall and public services will be underpressure due to economic fall out of brexit and right wing government

35-The trade deficit between the EU & UK is almost £92 billion a year in the EU’s favour

I don't really understand this - if we are owed 92 billion it might get written off in the event of brexit so we never get it back

36- The EU waste billions of pounds of British money on useless projects.

HS2

37- We can reintroduce UK passports without the EU mark on them

Waste of taxpayers money

38- If an EU nation gives a non EU immigrant their passport they get unrestricted access to the UK

We have unrestricted access to the EU and we should get out and use it more (the weather is better in the EU)

39-The UK can act as an example to other eurosceptic EU nations & encourage them to quit e.g. Holland/France

Yes Brexit could cause the break up of a stable democratic trading bloc which has benefited the world

40- The UK can control our own VAT currently the EU set the bands

Lots of taxes we can control

41- The UK only gets 49p back from the EU for every £1 we put in

We are richer because we took stuff from countries we invaded in our empire. Its good we are giving money to help other countries develop

42- The EU is a threat to the UK finance sector

Brexit is a threat to the UK finance sector
43- The average British household would be £1000 a year better off after Brexit

That is not what most models say

44- The UK has under 10% of MEP’s & only 1 vote of 28 in the Council

The UK will have no vote at all if we leave but if we want to trade with the eu will still have to obey laws

45- Open Europe says the top 100 EU rules cost the UK £33 billion to implement

These rules are designed to improve lives

46- Stop immigrants claiming child benefits for children that don’t even live in the UK

Children will suffer

47-The UK is not able to take skilled non EU immigrants because we are overwhelmed by unskilled EU immigrants

We should support economic development in other countries so they don't want to come

48- Between 2009 & 2014 the UK voted against 576 EU proposals in the EU Parliament, 485 became law (84%)

The EU is left leaning the conservatives who have basically been in power of this period are right wing. Thus they would disagree with many EU laws which help ordinary people

49-The EU took the UK to court 23 times between 2007-2011 for not implementing EU law

There are quite a few laws that I would like to take the UK government to court for

50- The EU currently decide 75% of the laws affecting Britain

This is debated

51-The UK lost our veto over many legal areas in the Lisbon Treaty, Qualified Majority Voting was introduced meaning the Eurozone can impose laws on the UK

This has not happened yet

52- Democratic inconsistency- the UK has 1 MEP for every 880,000 people. In Luxembourg they get 1 MEP for every 71,000 people.

If we leave we get no say at all

53- The UK has failed to block any measure it opposed in the EU Council for 19 years since 1996.

May be there were good reasons why noone else supported the UK

54- Last year the EU demanded the UK pay an extra £1.7 billion to the budget & David Cameron paid.

David Cameron got a very good deal on the EU budget. The growth of nationalistic movements will mean the eu budget will be likely to reduce of the next few years I think

55-EU treaties provide on Brexit we will have 2 years to negotiate a new deal

Deals with the rest of the world are likely to take much longer

56-Leaving the EU will help solve the housing crisis because immigration will be controlled & rent prices will go down

Wages will also go down

57 Protect the greenbelt-immigration has meant we have to build on our greenbelt to provide housing

We should be looking at supporting opportunities for people elsewhere in the EU so fewer people come

58-Stop school overcrowding & spend UK resources on educating British kids-immigration has led to massive class sizes.

Conservative policy has led to massive class sizes

59-British students are still able to study abroad because the Erasmus programme includes non EU nations.

Is this certain? - will it be more expensive?

60-The EU is responsible for many of the recent floods in the UK because the stops the UK from dredging rivers by the Water Framework Directive

If we are repealing green laws (see above) there will be more floods due to climate change. There has been dredging since the recent floods

61-The British people do not elect the various EU President, the EU Council or the EU Commission

Nor do we elect the head of the civil service. The quango which were developing the revised national curriculum would have done a much better job than michael gove

62-The EU has suggested that it wants to take The UK and France’s UN Security Council seats

I think the EU will become weaker due to nationalistic movements growing in EU countries so this is unlikely to happen

63- The EU controls the tariffs the UK has to put on goods from non EU nations which is damaging trade particularly with Commonwealth nations.

Brexit will reduce the economic clout of the UK and EU so global markets will be badly affected

64-The UK spends millions each year on translators (courts/hospitals/ schools etc) for EU immigrants

If we are not in the EU we will not know what is going on in other countries

65-The EU is set to expand further in the future meaning the UK will lose more influence & have to open borders to more people

Expanding the EU has reduced the power of Russia. No EU countries want more people coming

66-10,000 EU employees earn more than the British Prime Minister & we are paying for it

Lots of people earn more than the primeminister e.g. Donald Trump

67-The EU courts have recently overruled UK tax law & ordered the UK to pay back big business taxes they paid, estimated to reach £50 billion

Other EU countries have been better at getting big companies e.g. google to pay taxes so I think this is unlikely

68- David Cameron’s ‘renegotiation’ achieves nothing & has not been adopted by the EU, it can be ignored by the EU Parliament or overruled by the EU courts

It has been accepted

69- The EU spends £500 million a year of taxpayer money creating pro EU propaganda

The Brexit campaign has been supported by some very rich people telling people lies

70-The British people cannot vote out the leaders of the EU like we can a Westminster government

I think if there was real problem with the EU or with the royal family we would get rid of them

71-Policies widely supported by the public e.g. railway renationalisation are illegal whilst we are in the EU

I think there would be a way round this. We already had the UK government running GNER for a while

72- The EU allows the live importation of animals, the UK cannot ban it

Buy British and let the market decide (unless the farmers are killing badgers in which case its good to have European alternatives)

73-The EU Clinical Trials Directive 2004 has ruined the UK research sector, in 2000 the UK conducted 6% of all trials, in 2010 it was 1.4%

The UK research community benefits hugely from EU money and collaborations

74-The EU fine UK universities if they do not fly the EU flag, the University of Northampton was fined £56,000

Yes we are part of the EU. Why not fly the flag? I'm proud to be part of a union of democratic countries that supports the environment and high welfare standards for its people

75-The fundamental aim of the EU is to create a European superstate, the UK will not be a nation but a region controlled by the EU

We have opted out of this and I can't actually see the EU countries acutally becoming a superstate

76-Outside the EU the UK can create a free trade deal with the EU to maintain free trade

Only if we accept freedom of movement

77-If the UK votes to stay in the EU, it will be taken by the EU as permission from the British people to do whatever they want and impose more integration on us

Absolutely not- if we stay in the EU it will be by the skin of our teeth

78-The EU have just delayed the next EU budget until after the EU referendum, expect more massive increases

Taxes will go up due to the economic meltdown after brexit

79-The European Arrest Warrant allows Brits to be taken to other EU countries without a trial

It allows us to catch criminals. The EU countries have a high standard of justice

80-The EU makes a terrorist attack more likely because we cannot stop EU immigrants entering the UK e.g. one of the Paris attackers travelled to the UK

Terrorists can strike at any time and they can be born and bred in Britain and they can come from white British people

81-During the recent immigration crisis millions have entered the EU, as soon as they get an EU passport they have the right to enter the UK & use our NHS/schools/benefits etc

There are more and more restrictions on benefits. The Syrian crisis is likely to be caused by the UK supporting the US intervention in Iraq. Its right we play our part to help.

82-The EU is not responsible for peace in Europe, Nato is, for instance during the Balkan war it was the USA & UK that led efforts to stop it not the EU

Brexit is likely to destabilise Northern Ireland so we could end up with a war very close to home

83-All the groups who are telling the UK to stay in the EU have vested interests in the EU e.g. the IMF bailout Greece & those organisations all said the UK had to join the Euro

Yes the EU benefits lots of people including the citizens of the UK The Euro has had lots of beneficial effects. The problem for Greece is that they did not meet the criteria to join

84-The EU spends millions moving operations to Strasbourg from Brussels that UK taxpayers pay for

Our taxpayers pay for the house of lords ermine cloaks and the royal family. Lots of odd things taxpayers end up paying for

85-Worker rights DO NOT depend on the EU e.g. the UK had holiday rights in 1938, Equal Pay in 1970 & race/sex discrimination laws introduced before we joined

If we leave we will have a right wing conservative government who will reduce workers rights

86-The UK has better maternity rights than EU law provides providing more time off & better maternity pay

Good but these rights will be at risk with a right wing government and the economy in a tail spin

87- When the UK joined the EU we had 18% of MEP’s in the EU Parliament, we now have only 9.7%

That is because more countries have joined which has helped them develop economically and escape from Russia

88- The EU is currently planning to take control of UK taxes with a vote in May giving every EU citizen an EU tax identification number

This should help deal with illegal immigrants

89- The European Health Card (which includes non EU nations) has been used by immigrants living in the UK to claim for treatment in their home countries we pay for

The European Health Card gives us free treatment if we are ill if on holiday or working in the EU

90- 800,000 UK jobs have been advertised on an EU jobs website advertising our jobs to EU immigrants, more jobs than all other EU nations combined

Our economy has been extremely successful in the Eu

91- We cannot let more skilled Commonwealth immigrants into the UK who we have more in common with because we have open borders to unskilled EU immigrants

All humans are homo sapiens. Europeans are our nearest neighbours and we have a lot of shared history

92- When the UK joined the EU we had 17% of the vote in the EU Council, we now only have 8%

That is because more countries have become involved giving the whole bloc more power in the world

93- If the UK quits the EU it will encourage other EU nations to also leave

It will give more power to Russia, China and the Muslim nations with which we have less in common and have lower human rights standards

94- From 2005-2014 the NHS paid £1.3 billion for EU immigrants giving birth on the NHS

There hard working parents paid more money into the economy than they took out overall

95- The EU has just voted for new Port Regulations effectively seizing control of UK ports

I haven't noticed this myself

96- The UK is still a member of other international organisations e.g. the UN, WTO, NATO where we can work with other nations & protect our interests

These bodies have told us that our interests will be damaged if we leave the EU

97- Tory Minister has admitted that UK governments use the EU to pass unpopular laws they couldn’t get passed by the UK Parliament

EU laws have benefits health and welfare of UK citizens

98- The UK effectively has open borders to the entire world because any non EU national who marries an EU citizen can come to the UK

We need to help develop the rest of the world so people want to go to more other places by encouraging peace

99-The EU is never going to reform, David Cameron tried & failed to get major reform

The growth of nationalist movements throughout the EU is going to impact the EU as will the UK referendum campaign

100- Vote to Leave and David Cameron & George Osborne will have to resign & be out of power

To be replaced by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove... This referendum is too important to be about getting rid of a couple of people. Its implications could be felt for 100s of years

We can scrap EU green laws

What the actual?!!!

Don't care what the rest of your 99 reasons are, you're clearly hard of thinking.

I find your list hilarious.

Re 49 - unless we know what laws they are how can we make a judgment?

Last year, for example, the EU ruled that care workers CAN claim travel to clients as working time. Isn't this a good thing and an example of the EU upholding the rights of low paid workers?

37 We can reissue passports without the EU mark on them

hahahaha

You were counting on no one actually trawling through these, weren't you.

37 - British passports without the EU mark.

What difference does this make?

I am actually swinging towards voting leave atm but this is an irrelevant point imo.

I like the nice red EU passport - I also like the traditional British passport text at the beginning

Her royal Britannic majesty requests all those it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance and to afford them as much assistance and protection as necessary

One of my favourite pieces of writing ever.

A few of my reasons for voting Leave:

1. Sovereignty and democracy
2. Strong concerns about the future plans and direction of the EU, and not taking anyone's word for it that we wouldn't be sucked in
3. Freedom to make our own trade deals around the world
4. I disagree with having to prop up the euro
5. Things Juncker says, such as "Prime Ministers must stop listening so much to their voters and instead act as “full time Europeans”"

4- Save £55 million a day in fees

£55m/day won’t be saved. Our gross contribution is £350m/week but we have a rebate of £100m/week which is deducted before any money is sent to Brussels. The EU then sends back money mainly for farming & regional development, gives money directly to the private sector, in particular for research & pays some of our commitment for foreign aid.

That means our net contribution is about £120m/week before benefits from EU membership such as Foreign Direct Investment (worth £496bn last year) plus the jobs it provides are taken into account.

Presumably if we leave the UK government will still want to support farmers, poorer regions, research, science & foreign aid.

5- Regain control of UK fishing waters

The management of fish stocks can only be done at EU/international level.

6- We will not be signed up to the TTIP

Draft trade deals are usually a dog’s dinner & don’t resemble the final agreement. It’s difficult to judge TTIP because we don’t know what the opt outs will be & if we leave the EU we could end up with a similar deal but less influence because the UK market/population is just 65m.

US trade representative has said it wouldn’t be keen on pursuing a separate free trade deal with Britain if we quit the EU. Too much trouble with Congress.

www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-usa-idUSKCN0SM2LS20151028

7- We can stop future EU members e.g. Turkey/Albania/Serbia get free movement to the UK

They won't be joining the EU anytime soon until they can meet the EU criteria on democracy & the rule of law. The Eurozone economy is improving & when/if they join there will be more jobs available in other EU countries. That means many of the EU migrants will return home to countries such as France & Spain & fewer are going to want to come to the UK.

9-Cheaper food-being outside the CAP provides cheaper food prices

The price of food from outside the EU might go down if EU tariffs were removed. At the same time, new tariffs might make food from inside the EU more expensive. Food from inside the UK might be more costly to produce, unless the government replaced EU subsidies for farmers. Wages, taxes, wholesale energy costs, the level of competition, rental rates & other things affect prices too.

18-Protect UK culture & national identity

No such thing as UK culture or identity because the UK has 4 constituent countries each with their own culture & indentity. When people refer to British or UK culture & identity they have usually conflated it with English culture & identity, & a dislike of anything non-English.

42- The EU is a threat to the UK finance sector

If we quit the EU, the passport that allows UK-based financial institutions to operate across the single market & the associated jobs would be at risk.

www.bankofengland.co.uk/pra/Pages/authorisations/passporting/default.aspx

55-EU treaties provide on Brexit we will have 2 years to negotiate a new deal

Under Article 50, Lisbon Treaty a country is limited to 2 years after giving formal notice of leaving to negotiate a withdrawal agreement. That period can only be extended if everyone agrees unanimously . If no agreement is reached our membership of the EU will automatically cease.

www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html

60-The EU is responsible for many of the recent floods in the UK because the stops the UK from dredging rivers by the Water Framework Directive

The EU directive didn't stop dredging, it was the way it was implemented by the UK Government. In January 2016 DfERA announced a change of it's rules so dredging could recommence in April

61-The British people do not elect the various EU President, the EU Council or the EU Commission

The EU Council is the democratically elected heads of government of each EU state who elect their President by QMV so it isn't dissimilar to the way we select our PM. EU citizens directly elect MEPs. The Commission is the EU executive body a bit like the UK civil service which is appointed. In the case of the Commission each EU state appoints a Commissioner.

The Commission makes proposals but it is the EU Council who set the overall agenda & together with MEPs adopt or endorse the proposals.

62-The EU has suggested that it wants to take The UK and France’s UN Security Council seats

Under the terms of the UN Charter, any change to the permanent membership of the Security Council would require amending the Charter itself; and such an amendment needs the agreement of all five permanent members, including Britain.

75-The fundamental aim of the EU is to create a European superstate, the UK will not be a nation but a region controlled by the EU

EU has evolved so that there are different tiers of membership to reflect the political & economic realities of individual states. That means the UK & other like minded countries can't have further integration imposed upon us against our will. However we cannot prevent other countries that do want further integration from having it.

76-Outside the EU the UK can create a free trade deal with the EU to maintain free trade

A free trade deal with the EU wouldn’t be just on our terms, it would require agreement. Proportionally UK exports to EU are about 13% of our GDP whereas EU exports to us are 3% so the EU has more leverage. Wolfgang Schäuble, German Finance minister has said there would be no single market access for UK after Brexit.

81-During the recent immigration crisis millions have entered the EU, as soon as they get an EU passport they have the right to enter the UK & use our NHS/schools/benefits etc

Recent migrants won't be eligible for EU citizenship for years. First of all their applications to live in the EU need to be processed & about 40% are unsuccessful. Secondly, by the time they are eligible to apply for EU citizenship (8 years in Germany) many refugees may return to Syria if the war ends there & because the economy in the Eurozone is beginning to improve there will be more jobs in other EU countries. Migrants who are settled in homes & jobs aren't that likely to upsticks to come to the UK.

82-The EU is not responsible for peace in Europe, Nato is, for instance during the Balkan war it was the USA & UK that led efforts to stop it not the EU

NATO is the main guarantor of security from external threat from outside the EU but the has been the most important means of creating democracy & the rule of law within Europe. EU played a key role in securing peace & democracy arbitrating in disputes with former Soviet & Balkan countries.

92- When the UK joined the EU we had 17% of the vote in the EU Council, we now only have 8%

UK actually now has the third largest vote at 12.73% (based on population) against Frances’s 13.4% & Germany’s 15.93% .

www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/voting-system/voting-calculator/

96- The UK is still a member of other international organisations e.g. the UN, WTO, NATO where we can work with other nations & protect our interests

Other international bodies involve trade-offs, too. The 13,200 international agreements Britain has signed since 1834 constrain our action in areas from climate change, chemical weapons, war crimes & torture to the rules we apply to banking and air traffic. Over 700 “contain references to the possibility of binding dispute settlement in the event of disagreements”, according to Dominic Grieve, the former Attorney General.

Would love to know where the average family are going to get this £1000 a year extra from

People are so easily bought aren't they.

1-Control immigration & introduce a skills based system
Nope. More than half the immigrants we have at the moment are non-EU so they won't be affected. Plus most of the immigrants we have are needed for jobs that are benefitting the economy - we'd be worse off if we lost them.

2-The UK Parliament makes our law not the EU
UK parliament already makes our laws and has veto over EU if we really want to. But most of the time it's sensible not to veto because these things have been thought through by intelligent people and the democratically elected people representing us will most of the time agree that a new EU directive is a good idea. Or if they don't it doesn't get implemented cos of the veto.

3-Sign our own trade deals
Yes on less beneficial terms than the EU can get due to our comparatively lower buying power, and with us bearing a much bigger share of the cost of the negotiation's bureaucracy because we aren't spreading it over many nations. So we lose lots of money. Great plan

4- Save £55 million a day in fees
Hmm yes at the cost of losing £25m a day in rebates and direct investment and c £300m a day in indirect benefits from increased trade and economic benefits so that we lose much much more money overall.

5- Regain control of UK fishing waters
Oh goody. Let's use our gunboats like we did in the Cod Wars hmm except no there are fishing related treaties that predate the eu and which wouldn't be affected by brexit. And we MUST have international agreements on fishing if we're not going to plunder the oceans into extinction because fish don't actually recognise borders so the only way to deal sensibly is by doing a deal. ie not being in control.

6- We will not be signed up to the TTIP
We will get something very like it as soon as the UK government can attract the USA's attention. Whereas in the EU we have a chance to escape it as other member states are likely to veto (whereas our own bastards in charge are keen to sign up)

7- We can stop future EU members e.g. Turkey/Albania/Serbia get free movement to the UK
We can do this already in the EU - we have veto power. But so do other states and none of these countries will be allowed to join until they have developed to a point where their populations will mostly be just as happy to stay at home (unless that have skills we want of course)

8-Withdraw from the Common Agriculture Policy (CAP) so we don’t pay for EU farms
That will cause huge suffering to our own farmers (see 9 as it's the same point said twice)

9-Cheaper food-being outside the CAP provides cheaper food prices
Translation: the CAP helps enable farm production to match up to consumer demand to allow farmers to make a living. Even with the CAP the price of milk and other food commodities are barely enough to cover the cost of production. Without the CAP the price plummets (yay for us) and even more farmers go bust (boo)

10-Reopen UK fisheries creating thousands of jobs
Only if you're happy for waters to be over fished and species to go extinct. If that doesn't seem like a good idea we will still have fishing limited by sensible international agreements

11-Cheaper energy prices-we can scrap EU green laws
Your grandchildren will suffer for such selfishness. We need green laws to protect their world.

12-Scrap the EU’s Common external tariff which increases the cost of imports from outside the EU (cheaper goods & food)
So you want countries which have lower costs due to laxer rules on workers rights, health and safety, animal cruelty and environmental responsibility to be able to undercut more ethical businesses so that they have no choice but to scrap these rules in order to compete with a race to the bottom. I don't.

13-Introduce a British Bill of Rights-EU members must sign up to ECtHR
Why re-invent the wheel? But our signing up to ECtHR is independent of EU membership and doesn't get rescinded by Brexit. I like human rights and am in favour of keeping them thanks.

14- No chance of the UK joining the Euro in the future
Already guaranteed with remaining in.

15-The UK won’t be forced to join an EU army with UK armed forces under Brussels control
Such an army is explicitly ruled out under existing eu treaties and is not planned. It is only mentioned by scaremongers with no interest in facts.

16-We will not have to bailout Euro countries & we just did Greece
Greece was bailed out because it was in everyone's long-term economic interests to do so. Plenty of bailouts within the UK with no EU interference. Economics isn't simple but occasionally people do know what they are doing

17-We can use the money we pay the EU on Britain e.g. NHS
Probably not. Firstly because by not spending that money on the EU we would crash our economy and the loss of money would be way more than the saving. Even in fantasy world where there is such a saving there is no chance the money saved would all go to the NHS as there would be so many other sectors hurt by brexit and needing funding to replace what was lost, but even if it did it would only be a tiny fraction of the NHS's normal budget and would make virtually no difference.

18-Protect UK culture & national identity
My UK culture and national identity is welcoming, cosmopolitan and happy to share with other nations. That's cos I'm not a racist

19-The UK would be an independent sovereign nation
Already is this within EU and would remain so with Remain. We have sovereignty and only choose of our own free will to cooperate internationally when it is our best interests to do so.

20-We can repeal EU regulations holding back business particularly small firms
You specifically mean rules on workers rights, maternity benefits etc here. I like those and want to keep them.

21- The UK can take back our own seat at the World Trade Organisation
Yeah OK I'll concede this is true. Score so far 20 to remain, 1 to Brexit. Not sure how this will benefit us but hey maybe you do.

22-It will be easier to crackdown on tax avoidance because EU free movement of money allows firms to avoid tax
I don't think our government is very interested in such crackdowns going by recent cases. More likely that GB would be the EU's offshore tax haven and would actively aid and abet tax avoidance on a massive scale.

23-Outside the EU we can require immigrants to pay for NHS treatment
It's already been established that the costs of a bureaucracy to establish everyone's entitlements and bill those not entitled would cost way more than would ever be recovered, losing money in the long run.

24- The EU is undemocratic-Parliament will be fully accountable to Brits again
The EU is less undemocratic than the House of Lords is. The EU employs fewer unelected bureaucrats (civil servants) than the UK does. Elected MEPs and our own PM can influence ammend and if necessary veto legislation when appropriate. It's all fine.

25- We could introduce a law for British jobs for British workers
With freedom of movement within the EU all companies can recruit the best person in Europe - or indeed the best person in the world - for the job. Such a law would require companies to give the job to someone second-rate or third-rate on the basis of their nationality despite inferior skills and experience, removing the incentive for that British person to get the better skills and experience. We would all be poorer for it. No thanks.

26- We can charge EU students international university fees for using UK universities
We could. There would be a reduction in the numbers who came as with any market commodity when the price goes up. Some courses would become unviable and would close. No particular benefit here.

27-We can stop immigrants claiming tax credits, social housing & benefits
Immigrants are net contributors to the economy. More tax is paid by immigrants than is paid out to them. We would be poorer if this was true but there wouldn't actually be significantly fewer immigrants (see above) so not true.

Oh god it's nearly midnight. Stopping for now. Will continue if I have time before Thursday but the vast majority of the other 73 items in your list are as equally utter bollocks.

Please stop with all this cut and paste bollocks. I look forward to Friday after which I doubt I'll ever see a post from you on Mumsnet again.
Quite fancy unicorns for all....

Only if you are younger than 7 years old, officer. Restrictions apply!

13-Introduce a British Bill of Rights-EU members must sign up to ECtHR

The European Court of Human Rights is overseen by the European Council, an entirely separate organisation from the EU. UK was a founding member of the European Council & Uk lawyers drafted much of the legislation. It now has 47 member states. If we leave the EU we will still be bound by the ECtHR unless we also leave the European Council.

15-The UK won’t be forced to join an EU army with UK armed forces under Brussels control

UK won’t be forced to join an EU army because we have a veto over that particular issue.

17-We can use the money we pay the EU on Britain e.g. NHS

If the UK continues to support farmers, regional development, science & research & pay foreign aid there wont be much, if any, money left for the NHS. If Brexit causes an economic shock, even a small one, there would be less money to pay the NHS not more.

21- The UK can take back our own seat at the World Trade Organisation

The world has moved on.WTO now works in groupings of countries & Britain on it’s own would have little influence.

22-It will be easier to crackdown on tax avoidance because EU free movement of money allows firms to avoid tax.

Tax avoidance can’t be cracked down upon because it isn’t unlawful. Because the world is internationalised the only way to tackle tax evasion & corporate tax dodging is internationally.

28- The EU forbids state aid so the UK is unable to support UK industry e.g. steel

An EU move that could have helped protect the UK steel industry from cheap Chinese imports was voted down by British UKIP MEPs.

Britain's steel industry is closely tied to the EU - exporting some 2m tonnes of steel products last year. Outside the EU, the British steel industry could itself face punishing tariffs, depending on what sort of deal could be negotiated.

31- The EU undermines UK democracy because we are constantly outvoted by other EU nations

Many EU decisions are reached by consensus. Although the UK is the most rebellious member state at the EU Council, it still voted 'yes' 91% of the time.

www.votewatch.eu/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/data-annex-to-votewatch-europe-2012-annual-report-final.pdf

32- The EU has not had its accounts signed off for 20 years

Independent auditors have signed off the EU accounts as an accurate record every year. The last 7 or 8 years reports are on the EU Court of Auditors website. Last year’s press statement & linked report are available here;

www.eca.europa.eu/en/Pages/AR2014.aspx

45- Open Europe says the top 100 EU rules cost the UK £33 billion to implement

£33.3bn per year is a shaky estimate of the cost of EU rules & nothing like what we would save by leaving. Open Europe calculated a maximum possible saving of £24.4 billion per year, and a more “politically feasible” one of £12.8 billion. But even these figures overestimate Brexit savings. Open Europe uses government documents that attempt to predict the impact of new EU rules. They also calculate benefits worth £1.1 billion a week on businesses and the public sector – but even this excludes other benefits.

openeurope.org.uk/intelligence/britain-and-the-eu/top-100-eu-rules-cost-britain-33-3bn/

66-10,000 EU employees earn more than the British Prime Minister & we are paying for it

Top UK government employees earn more than the British PM too!

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/492289/150K_senior_salaries.csv/preview

99-The EU is never going to reform, David Cameron tried & failed to get major reform.

EU reform isn’t a once off event, it’s an ongoing process. Historic reforms include EU legislation now requiring approval by the EP as well as by national ministers in the Council; before debates national parliaments have prior scrutiny of proposals; the Commission President is elected by the EP straight after European elections; the Commission as a whole can only take office with parliamentary approval, & it can be dismissed by EP; there is now an EU Ombudsman, a right of petition for citizens, & a right for the EP to set up committees of inquiry into cases of EU maladministration.

Deepening the single market, reforming fisheries policy, transparency, budgetary reform, strengthening environmental protections, better law making & review of all EU legislation, simplifying & repealing where necessary are ongoing.

I'd like to pick back up on point 82 actually.

NATO forces were used because the US wanted to circumvent the UN. Who do you think ran (and still bloody supervises) the government in Kosovo for example? The EU! And is he list maker being deliberately stupid? When we talk about the EU maintaining peace it means the wealthy, powerful, Western countries who spent a huge chunk of the 20th century at war with one another. You know, the countries that can actually do us damage?

I don't foresee countries such as Croatia, or Estonia posing much of a threat, but our closest neighbours are very wealthy and powerful, and have serious weaponry. I don't understand why anyone would willingly jeopardise our relationship with our closest allies, leaving us at the mercy of the UN for e.g. And we all know how effective they have been (Iraq, anyone? Ongoing shite situation with Palestine/Israel.

The EU goes a long way to keeping us safe, and that's not even going into the security information we share.

Agreed pata. Leave campaigners seem so keen to keep immigrants out they've forgotten that these immigrants are coming from seriously unstable places that we couldn't defend against on our own. It's ridiculous to say this wouldn't be a problem because we've got NATO when NATO is advising strongly that it would be unsafe to leave. In the context of defence, sticking together with Europe is about a lot more than NATO.

"If British culture is so important why do the vast majority of those in arts, fashion, theatre, film, literature and music back Remain? Including JK Rowling who has probably brought more money into our economy than any other individual of the past 20 years."

Hear hear. Thank you.

I assume what Brexiters mean by 'British culture' is the ability to speak English without a foreign accent. I can't see anything else that is significantly different from European 'culture'. Unless, of course, what is meant is not only that those disgusting primitive leeching Europeans from German, Italy, Denmark, France (whoops, don't they have much more in terms of welfare state handouts and social security than what is on offer in the UK?) Poland etc. come here with their primitive European ways but the dark folk that will get here via Europe . Well, dear Brexiters, the refuges from Asia and Africa will not stop coming to Europe and there will be increased 'out of control' illegal immigration after a hypothetical Brexit, just to put your xenophobic minds at rest. (tongue firmly in cheek)

And also the disgusting, leeching Europeans taking school place away from unsuspecting British kids, their parents pay their taxes and have a right to send their kids to any European school. Mostly they are highly driven to make a better life and contribute in a wide range of ways to society.

home.bt.com/news/news-extra/too-many-children-ukips-latest-referendum-poster-takes-on-school-places-11364069184621
This image by Farage was shared by someone in ds' school yesterday. the racism and xenophobia are right there in our dc's classrooms. Shame on you.

The only cheerful thing about my post is that my computer wants to auto-correct Farage to Frog

Read this thought I would share .....
Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata,
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Thanks Grass Couldn't see that on your other thread!

Could I introduce you to the concept of globalisation? You may not agree with it (I certainly have issues) but I don't think the cause is just the EU. Oh and Dyson is voting Leave - after happily taking an EU grant according to your list.

If British culture is so important why do the vast majority of those in arts, fashion, theatre, film, literature and music back Remain

Are you talking about the tiny minority of those working in the arts who are very wealthy? The Beckhams, Geldof, Simon Cowell etc? They don't necessarily represent the huge numbers of other people who work in the arts.

Hahaha do you think as soon as you vote leave. Britain will be a better place? You are living in a fantasy.