#2 Anyone feeling worried now?

[nearlyhellokitty]

Link to the previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2656228-Anyone-else-really-worried-now

Seems like it was a useful threat started by MrsBlackthorn and it hit the big 1000 so I took the liberty to restart it!

Original post:
My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

I'm very stressed out about the whole thing. I just want the vote and to know. It's causing me way too much anxiety as my future depends on this.

ohdog concern about immigration has nothing to do with skin colour or a race. It is completely about numbers and volume.

That this hasn't been discussed without cries of "racism" is the failure of the Remain campaign

The Leave campaign wants controlled immigration. The ability to select the people with the talent/skills that the country needs from all around the world. That isn't racist.

through why 2? There's basically every trade agreement ever to redo. And meanwhile leave complains about how long it takes for the EU to do trade agreements, why do you think it'd be different? People I've spoken to who might have to actually get this done are thinking minimum 5 of negotiations prob more like 10

Unfortunately liner that is not what is being felt - the experience of brown people and EU migrants is that they're feeling threatened and are experiencing being told to go home. The scaremongering from Leave re all the migrants taking your jobs, killing the NHS schtick has left it's mark

I don't know if you've seen the collage of express front pages but it's horrific - migrants taking this or that, overwhelming nhs etc

The Express, like all newspapers, prints whatever sells best.

With controls, nobody will have cause to complain about the numbers, because they will have been set by a democratically elected government.

In fact for those downplaying the current nastiness. Suggest you try Googing express migrant front page and look at the Google images. ..

Yeah right limer
The democratic UK govt has totally failed on non eu migration
And am sure other democratic countries have never complained about migrants and caused a hostile atmosphere
I mean look at the US

Seriously limer selling the most ? Lookay the ugly collection of front pages several of which have got sanctioned by the press standards commission for misleading figures and tell me hand on heart that it's not hostile/ provocative

The US has an awful lot of illegal immigration.

Those headlines sell more copies, which is what the Express is in business to do. They are hostile, they are provocative, people buy it.

See also gu.com/p/4y3pb/fb

Total utopia that people won't complain about the numbers with controls.

Can't really believe you are justifying the express. I mean it's ok because it sells. ..?

Anyway none of it detracts fron whats being said - that the atmosphere is nasty

These papers often fan the fires as well - they use big figures that are super dodgy and designed to provoke the kind of 'I knew it' reaction

I'm not justifying the Express. It's a popular tabloid, it wildly exaggerates and makes ridiculous claims in order to sell copies. That's what tabloid papers do.

And you're right, people will still complain about numbers. But the government will be able to do something - either justify the limit they've set, or change it. And if the people disagree, they can vote the government out at the next general election.

I'm trying to highlight to you that the debate has run far ahead of controlled numbers and there's some very nasty stuff going on, and this is being felt and experienced by EU migrants and people who may look brown.

Brexit will nor actually solve any of this

The govt has set numbers before and failed ...

You're trying and failing I'm afraid kitty

Well none so blind as who will not see as they say

Can't quite believe that you haven't clocked the many nasty undercurrents

The key thing to keep in mind is that Priti Patel, Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom etc, the politicians on the Leave campaign, are decent people who are not racist. The debate about immigration is about controlling the numbers and reducing them from the 300,000 plus per year that they are now. That will make immigration less of an issue in the future.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/14/osborne-predicts-30bn-hole-in-public-finance-if-uk-votes-to-leave-eu

Particularly puzzled by the following bit and the way the way this is couched as if the UK is unilaterally in control of what happens and how it happens. Don't forget the WTO said you have to have willing partners!

"Vote Leave said it believes an out vote should be followed by a negotiation strategy for informal talks that will lead to a new UK-EU treaty, immediate legislation in parliament, and a framework for legislation and policy decisions between 2016 and 2020."

First of all, isn't all that will be discussed in the brexit period, the actual brexit, tail-ends and disentanglements. A 'new' UK-EU treaty will possibly or probably be negotiated afterwards, but certainly in the EU's good time, so there is no reason to claim it will be agreed in a way or time to suit the UK's interests. Don't forget the UK would be an outsider at that stage, so why would anyone claim it would receive any particularly favourable treatment over other outsiders?

The WTO stated their rules would put the price of tariffs for the UK at 9 billion, so automatically cancelling membership fee before you do diddley squat. The finances of a country are not like a household budget. The EU membership fees give manifold returns in business, R&D, etc.

If the border concerns return to UK territory, what possible issues could arrive from that? It is going to much improved security measures.

Limer and Rooner: I am not saying all people who are for brexit are racist - I even said I have concerns over immigration myself as do a lot of established "migrant communities " who have been here for more than half a century . I agree that someone has to do something but neither side has given me a convincing argument . How much migration is needed to sustain the aging population in this country? Why can't our jobless be better trained to fill some of these positions. I don't think the EU is responsible for our governments - both Labour and Tory , not addressing these issues . Why would this change with a brexit ? Underfunding the education system and the NHs are not EU issues - it's GOVERNMENT POLICY. Governments WE vote in. Where is OUR responsibility in all this? In the meantime, every person who doesn't like " foreigners coming over here " and not assimilating in exactly the way they want - like still talking in their own languages and wearing funny clothes - let's not forget this is what Farage thinks despite his reasonable persona these days- don't belong . Instead of seeing the ability to speak another language as a fucking strength they see it as an insult. People go to university to learn these languages . How do you argue with people this small minded who are now emboldened by a legitimate debate on immigration. And as for claig- sorry anyone for trump I cannot engage with on a serious level.