#2 Anyone feeling worried now?

[nearlyhellokitty]

Link to the previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2656228-Anyone-else-really-worried-now

Seems like it was a useful threat started by MrsBlackthorn and it hit the big 1000 so I took the liberty to restart it!

Original post:
My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

'May I ask what role you played in that war?'

I wasn't around at the time

For democracy which is what we fought a war for, to govern ourselves and remove the people who make our laws if we don't agree with them.

Do you not accept that the EU is an elected parliament? We have the right to remove both MEPs and MPs. The "we" in removing a significant proportion of MEPs is a far larger group that the "we" required to change a UK government though.

You're in favour of Trump Claig?

NB for a detailed discussion on democracy and sovereignty see this great and balanced analysis:
barristerblogger.com/2016/06/13/must-remain-eu-peace-prosperity/

'do you have any evidence for this? Historically, empirically etc. etc.'

The richest country in the world is the freest, with free speech enshrined in its Constitution. It fought a war of indepedence against tyranny and freed itself and became the greatest power on earth. The United States where the creative potential of a free people has created innovation and wealth beyond anything achieved in a country that is not free.

The reason you need freedpm is, is so that the idiots running a country can be removed if they are useless so that the talents of the brightest are allowed to rise in a true meritcracy. That is why a useless Establishment stifles growth since it prevents new free growth.

The EU is a bureaucracy that has stifled British freedom, that creates thusands of regulations and rules onvacuum cleaners and everything else. It has led to the greatest economic distress across all of Europe since the 1930s and its idiots continue with the same policy.

That is why Gove has had the courage to break from his UK government idiots and say to the European elites "you have had your day, we are taking back control".

The prospect of house prices coming down is one draw (of the few) to Brexit in my eyes! I'm never going to be able to afford a house where I Iive.

Are you talking about the US Claig? The same US that has much greater inequality than the UK? And worse labour freedoms etc?

Yes cos Gove did such a great job when he reformed the school system

'Do you not accept that the EU is an elected parliament? '

Yes, but it is toothless which is just the way the ruling class likes things. Hardly anyone knows who their MEP is, the turnout for MEP elections is abysmal, they are rarely grilled on Newsnight because no one is interested in them. It is a joke.

'You're in favour of Trump Claig?'

Absolutely. He is going to change the entire world which is why Donald Tusk, the EU, the Davos billionaires and the so-called world "leaders" are reported to be "terrified" of him, just as Donald Tusk is "terrified" of the British people ending what he says is "Western Civilization" if we choose freedom over rule by him and his mates.

I'm still resolutely unworried , and am glad that people stopped being dicks to the op of the last thread.

It's interesting reading what other people's concerns are about staying in or leaving, there are a few shouty down people, but as they are doing it on all threads it's easy to distegard and read the real grievances.

What is interesting is with polls bring so close to nearly 50% of voters really thing the other nearly 50% off voters are ALL racists, just because?

It's been interesting seeing the reasons people have for making their decision when both sides have been somewhat lackadaisical with information they choose to release.

Ok Claig is in favour of Trump. enough said.

MEPs are not toothless they just don't get a lot of coverage. not entirely the same thing.
Plus the people in Brussels negotiating in the Council are our democratically elected governments.

'The same US that has much greater inequality than the UK? '

Freedom is not the same as equality. Freedom will mean inequality because some will be rewarded more than others due to difference in skills.

And how are you going to reform the House of Lords, claig, or keep the queen out of the decision making process in a hung parliament. And why do we need to leave the EU to do it?

"I wasn't around at the time" - probably shouldn't say what we fought a war for then - as you didn't and you couldn't possibly know the motivation of those that did.

For me, freedom means that everyone has the same life chances as well as agency over their lives.

You're not talking about freedom Claig, you're talking about the absence of regulation.

claig - so no you don't have any evidence of freedom equals prosperity. Qatar Doesn't have freedom - and is the richest country in the world. Not the US. See also Brunei, UAE. Kuwait.

"What is interesting is with polls bring so close to nearly 50% of voters really thing the other nearly 50% off voters are ALL racists, just because?"

That is interesting - how many of the bremainers on this site have said everybody on the brexit side is a racist? I think I have missed it.

'And how are you going to reform the House of Lords, claig, or keep the queen out of the decision making process in a hung parliament.'

This referendum really is an earthquake which is why they are so scared and why Anushka Asthana said that "Cameron has got real fear in his eyes" and why Donald Tusk is so frightened of the British people that he has said that Brexit may be the "end of Western Civilization".

Whatever happens the EU is finished and whatever happens our politics will have to be reformed as the people in hue numbers reject the warnings and scaremongerings of our servant class such as Gordon Brown, Cameron, the IMF and everyone else. It will be such a shock to the credibility of our leaders that our system will have to change and become more democratic in order to instil confidence in the public.

It will be a huge chaneg and can't happen overnight, but it will happen because the stooges will no longer be able to stop House of Lords reform and all other types of democratic reform.

I don't think we should be voting on this in the first place, actually. The more I hear, the more I think this. It was just because Cameron was afraid of losing the last election, that we are in this mess. It will be a very great pity if leave wins, the only saving grace is that Cameron will be off as soon as it happens

100% with you there my fellow dragon.

honey I don't quite understand why you're not worried at all honey.. either way it's going to be messy because everyone's so riled up.

Business for Britain sounds like a Brexit support camp to me.

Is there any independent evidence re the 60% claim out there....

Thanks for the link kitty - interesting reading.

I actually don't think freedom from government regulation is exactly ideal. Every law restricts the freedom of someone. For the most part I think we have the balance right.

The reason you need freedom is, is so that the idiots running a country can be removed if they are useless so that the talents of the brightest are allowed to rise in a true meritcracy.
There has never (to my knowledge) been a true meritocracy in the entire human history. And (IMO) there never will be.

I don't think we should be voting on this in the first place, actually. The more I hear, the more I think this. It was just because Cameron was afraid of losing the last election, that we are in this mess. It will be a very great pity if leave wins, the only saving grace is that Cameron will be off as soon as it happens

^This a million times

'Qatar Doesn't have freedom - and is the richest country in the world. Not the US. See also Brunei, UAE. Kuwait.'

No, they are paper tigers because they can't protect that wealth, unlike the United States. Wait and watch the US election and wait and see about the Clinton Foundation and then see how much power some of those rich countries end up having.

Africa is the richest continent on earth and yet it has been exploited and some of those rich Middle Eastern countries are rich because of what they sit on, but they don't have the power to go their own way.

The only argument that can counter this momentum – and one which has the benefit of being true – is that housing shortages, falling real terms wages and a decline in public services are the fault of corporate greed and failed government policy

^This, oh yes definitely this