Anyone else really worried now?

[MrsBlackthorn]

My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

Possibly - and this is part of my fear as it will lead to economic uncertainty. Worst case scenario - fall in the pound, freeze on investment and the knock on effect of redundancies, slow growth etc.

Those of you throwing insults and questioning people's intelligence, on this thread and others, do you genuinely care about the outcome of June 23rd, do you have real worries?

It's not the way to sway people who are saying they are on the fence from wavering one way or the other is it? It just comes across that as wanting to show off on the Internet.

Without wanting to derail the thread, am I the only one who thinks that if Britain votes to leave, it will simply be the start of a more serious negotiation with the EU about reform rather than the beginning of actually leaving?

I think that would only enhance and deepen people's disillusionment with politicians - to have the people's will ignored - and probably career suicide to any leader espousing it.

Possibly, Jassy, but it's such a big thing that I find it hard to imagine that s close vote to Leave (I think it would be close, rather than a landslide) wouldn't leave all the Remain politicians feeling that they had some mandate.

Those of you throwing insults and questioning people's intelligence, on this thread and others, do you genuinely care about the outcome of June 23rd, do you have real worries?

Yes, I am worried and I care. I haven't thrown any insults either. British politics has been dictated by the media barons who play politicians and the public like puppets on a string ("Its the Sun wot won it"). I hear members of the public talking about Brexit using phrases like "floodgates" and "breaking point" - straight out of a tabloid editorial. This is not debate based on fact or reasoned arguement it is hyperbole and anti-intellectualism.

I think the long term benefits of leaving the eu is that when there is that when there is an almighty global recession, - There is no doubt that there's one coming - we can look after our own society and country in the first instance. If we can afford to snd want to help other countries then that will be our prerogative, not an order.

Being out of the Eu means we won't be bailing out countries left right and centre. We can look after our own affairs without outside direction and demands.

I have not read anything that makes me change from out.

There is a lot of scaremongering about leaving.

I look at it that we stay in and stay on the same self destructive path we have been on for number of years.

Or leave and change could happen for the better.

Britain will not be immune to a global recession. We trade with other countries.

Look at the assistance UK gave to the Irish government a few years ago

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11807769

Osborne - "We are doing this because it is overwhelmingly in Britain's national interest that we have a stable Irish economy and banking system.

Possibly, Jassy, but it's such a big thing that I find it hard to imagine that s close vote to Leave (I think it would be close, rather than a landslide) wouldn't leave all the Remain politicians feeling that they had some mandate.

Maybe, but given it would be conservative politicians, it would tear the party apart pretty much immediately and there would be a fair few in the remain camp who wouldn't support the government in failing to abide by the decision of the electorate.

I'm another who actually hopes this won't happen even though I think Brexit is an incredibly bad idea. Because it would only extend the economic uncertainty and pain.

Thick - what help are you imagining if we remain in the EU? Not bailouts surely?

Jassy - Because it would only extend the economic uncertainty and pain.

How is that any different to staying in. We know where that road leads but leaving EU yes uncertainty but know one knows pain.

There will be a downturn but that will happen regardless

How is that any different to staying in.

Are you kidding? No difference between the economic certainty of knowing the trading model and relationships we're operating under immediately, and an extra few years of not knowing whether we're in or out hitting investment and employment followed by more uncertainty and delay if we then decide to leave after all until we know what our exit terms would be. And then the restructuring begins. Worst of all worlds.

We know where that road leads but leaving EU yes uncertainty but know one knows pain.

Well no, we don't know where that road leads with any certainty, as you and others from the Brexit side have been telling us repeatedly - we can't make concrete economic claims for 20 years' time, fair enough.
Well, we do know that economic uncertainty = pain, almost inevitably. And Brexit leaders agree there will be short term pain, but they think it will be worth it. Long term it's a judgement call on whether we're better off in or out; anyone claiming it's dead cert either way is lying either to themselves or other people, frankly.

There will be a downturn but that will happen regardless

Perhaps - no one knows for sure - but severity and duration are important to real people.

Firstly we don't spend £350m per week on the EU - with refunds, subsidies, etc that we receive back the net figure is in the region of £175m

Secondly, the NHS costs in the region of £117 billion to run a year, which is over £2 billion a week - if we had an additional £175m to spend on this a week it is frankly a drop in the ocean to what is needed - less than 8% of the weekly spend

Hello so I just saw this economic history article - shows the value that membership of the EU has had to our growth. And tbh a bit worrying re the structural break.

voxeu.org/article/britain-s-eu-membership-new-insight-economic-history

Ghost that's one of those posts that makes me wish we had a like button.

Honey- off topic but I'd love a like button

80k "Without wanting to derail the thread, am I the only one who thinks that if Britain votes to leave, it will simply be the start of a more serious negotiation with the EU about reform rather than the beginning of actually leaving?"

I think that would depend a lot on who was in charge of the government after a leave vote.

If Cameron stayed on I don't think he could credibly ignore the referendum vote having been on the losing side.

A savvy leaver like Johnson may be able to push for a new round of negotiations without his party turning on him, but it would require some delicate maneuvering.

I was thinking, if the country votes to Leave by a narrow margin, and the Conservatives end up bickering amongst themselves, perhaps the old guard from the Labour party would suddenly be in a position to seize the reins. In a chaotic situation all sorts of outcomes suddenly become likely. But, yes, I agree, it would be hard to see the conservatives being able to get their act together after the referendum, they are already beginning to come unstuck.

I'm afraid Labour have missed the boat on this one. If they'd consulted their core voters, they'd be supporting Leave and would indeed be poised to "seize the reins" as you say 80Kgirl. However, they've backed Remain, done the equivalent of gagging Jeremy Corbyn, and are now faced with a future where swathes of their core voters have deserted them in favour of UKIP.

UKIP have drummed up anti immigration sentiment. Its "divide and conquer", dog whistle politics.

The Brexit debacle is a making of the hard right. Cameron bottled it and offered a referendum, acquiescing to Farage. The future of this country is likely to be decided on the back of tabloid hyperbole.

I bet Cameron now wishes he'd implemented Leveson's recommendations on the Press.

I agree with you Limer. And I doubt Neil Kinnocks revelation that he's made £10,000,000 from the EU will resonate with Labours core voters. No wonder some of the MPs are looking for Mayoral positions.

Man of the people

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/poor-nigel-farage-finds-it-hard-to-get-by-on-109000-a-year-plus-expenses-9901390.html

Man of the people

order-order.com/2014/01/24/exc-gordon-brown-office-has-10000-a-week-expenses-raises-over-3-million-gives-less-than-1-million-to-charity/

All play that game - Tony Blair; Kinnock, Mandelson- won't bore with more links.

UKIP were formed early 90s on principle of sovereignty - Labour didn't consult with electorate on further integration and allowed free movement to impact on our poorer communities - the effect of which is that lots have defected to UKIP. Doesn't mean they're racist - means they have hard won experience of Labour not listening to them.

You don't get people out to vote on hyperbole from press, what a very sad view of British electorate you have. You get people out to vote because they want to be heard - the people will be voting on their own experience - the sort Labour have dismissed.

Others will vote on having researched the vested interests and how the EU operates. There will be many different reasons to vote the way they do, but only some will be so arrogant to believe that the way they are voting makes them "superior" and more intelligent in some way.

I'm for Brexit. We still have lots of support and funding for important stuff like medical research and environmental issues.
GB is a dumping ground . Sorry if no else sees this.
My estate is liked to Butlins for incomers. I don't oppose to immigration , just wish is wasn't such a free for all.