Anyone else really worried now?

[MrsBlackthorn]

My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

Ifyounuildit, a lot of people around the country might think you do have quite a lot of money if you support a cleaner, a gardener and a nanny. And they might wonder whether any of these people including the builder were British born. Yes you are creating a lot of low level economic activity, but the people voting out may feel that none of it benefits them, and it fact it only swells the population making their fight for housing and services even tougher.

I get the point you are making, and of course I don't know the actual details of your personal situation. I don't want to bash you; I just want to show that some of the people frustrating you simply have a different point of view.

"really will all these bankers up and leave and go to Frankfurt and work for far less be taxed higher I doubt it"

Yep. In fact other EU countries are falling over themselves to attract them in the event of Brexit. My employer is in negotiations with Ireland and Germany to move operations to either country.

I don't think Ifyounuildit is trying to say she's not well off. But that we can't pretend that the loss of jobs from multinationals only affects a small number of people.

If my company moves operations abroad, as they will likely do in the event of Brexit, I will lose my job.

But so too will my PA, the team assistant, people in HR and IT. If all of us don't have jobs, we stop spending money in shops and restaurants - so when you multiply that across tens of thousands of job losses, that has a huge impact.

And if people stop working, they stop paying tax. My income tax alone could cover the salary of a couple of nurses.

It's very short-sighted to pretend pushing big business out of the UK doesn't have an impact on the wider economy - it creates and supports jobs for people at all salary levels, and contributes enormous amounts to the Treasury.

We have heard it all before how the city will die and we will be in financial ruin I can remember hearing this at least twice in the last 20 years

But somehow negotiations were done as they will be again for the most important they will kept happy

That we have relied on financial services so much hasn't been a good thing for everyone the people that most benefited have been those that work within the industry and investors and is very much part of the issue of the growth between rich and poor certianly in London

Yet we can count on them paying for services for low wagers (I am not saying that you personally pay low wages) keeps that divide clear cut

The main reason Ireland's economy was decimated is the Government decided the nation should take on the debt burden of private banks which should have gone belly up.

The other things wouldn't have sank the country the way taking on the debt of the private sector did. Of course lots of UK pensions would have been lost along with European wide investments. That is why the Uk gave a loan (with interest to be paid on it) to protect their own investors.

Iceland did the right thing. It didn't saddle their country with the debts of private sector. You invest in something high interest and it goes well, you keep the interest. If it goes belly up, and I doubt any due diligence was carried out, you take the loss. Capitalism, I think you call it. Of course, the Uk invoked terror laws against Icelandic assets and froze them. Icelanders won the court case, though.

That was to LIMER.

I'd rather see the very rich MrsBlackthorn out of a job so that my children can have a fair deal when they grow up.

Try to have some self awareness, if you have a well paid job on the City you benefit twice: first you have that job which is possible because you sit at the cross roads of world finance, second your lifestyle is subsidised by cheap labour to serve you in shops, restaurants, at home, etc.

The flip side is people who can't afford to enjoy cleaners, gardeners, dinners out because they previously were the cleaners, gardeners, waiters. They were never rich enough, and now they are worse off now because their wages are under pressure.

The EU debate reminds me of the old metaphor of the log pile: people at the top of the pile are in a comfortable position but afraid of disrupting the pile because they could get badly hurt if it collapses. Meanwhile, people buried under the pile want immediate relief and have everything to gain from the pile collapsing. For them, things can only get better and they want you off their back!

I don't know. Many most of the MP's who support a Brexit are the same old, same old dears who quite happily look after 'vested' interests quite well. Michael Gove voted against a tax on bankers bonus, for increasing vat and against increasing income tax on incomes above 150,000 pounds. Academies.

I don't know where this imaginary Utopian deal is coming from and how MP's are all suddenly changing habits of a lifetime after Brexit.

Gove, Johnson, IDS, Fox, Fallon, Grayling. Gee, I hope they don't redistribute wealth too evenly or nobody will need to work for a living. Or fund the NHS and education to excess. However, I suppose people could use their free time in Utopia to get involved in causes and charity like Prince Harry etc.

"Gove, Johnson, IDS, Fox, Fallon, Grayling. Gee, I hope they don't redistribute wealth too evenly or nobody will need to work for a living. Or fund the NHS and education to excess. However, I suppose people could use their free time in Utopia to get involved in causes and charity like Prince Harry etc."

Man, I am almost dreading it. What's a socialist blogger to do when all of his dreams have been realised by the right wing instead?

Many most of the MP's who support a Brexit are the same old, same old dears who quite happily look after 'vested' interests quite well.

The MPs that are for remain are well known foe having no 'vested interests' then.

Oh wait.

*for

Can you elaborate on how me losing my job, and the people I work with losing their jobs, and the people all of us buy things from losing their jobs, will benefit your children, Spinfight?

I do not employ a nanny, a cleaner, or a gardener (indeed, I don't have a garden). I do buy things in shops, because I don't grow my own food and make my own clothes. I sometimes eat in restaurants and cafes. Today I spent £4.58 on lunch in Pret. And we have not yet resorted to a bartering economy.

Apart from spinfli you don't seem to respond to anyone else... Why

has anyone said that Boris and Gove are in it for the good of everyone

it is not about them we have the chance to vote them in in 2020

We have a housing shortage ,

NHS in crisis

Trade and businesses going down drain

Huge national debt

All whilst being in the EU

Why should we remain

How silly. I am certainly not saying it will be Utopia, but I have enough imagination to understand why people are beleaguered, why they think voting out is worth a shot, and why a lot of the arguments that o have read on this thread are tone deaf and likely to further irritate people who already feel left behind.

We could sell out to Asia or the USA, we're choosing not too. Whatever happens.

If that gives me a dodgy moral compass so be it.

"Why should we remain?"

Because all of those crises could get worse if the economy tanks again, which looks likely if we leave.

Too many people are thinking about how Brexit will affect them without looking at the bigger picture.

I was in the 'remain' camp until I watched Brexit the Movie. I thought it made some good arguments for voting 'leave'.

Now I'm undecided.

The point I make is that you and your undeserving banker cronies have lived a life of luxury whilst the rest of the country struggles.

Leaving the EU world mean higher wages for the rest of us ( bad for the economy according to Osborne!) and more opportunities outside the South East.

That is a price worth paying.

Unex "Why should we remain?"
^*
Because all of those crises could get worse if the economy tanks again, which looks likely if we leave.*^

But no body knows. But we do know the projections if we stay which are not good

What I mean is that there is too much self-interest rather than looking at the wider picture of what is good for society.

All of the older people are know are voting to remain simply because they are worried about their investments.

Some of the younger ones are worried about the value of their house falling, even though it's all relative.

I rather fancied retiring to an EU country and my DD wants to go to university in the EU. But I can't vote based on what is good for my family.

If the pound falls as predicted, surely that is good for our exporters. If interest rates rise as predicted, then that will attract investment.