Anyone else really worried now?

[MrsBlackthorn]

My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

Barely even feels as if we HAVE gotten out of the last one Mother

There might be an argument in there that the current UK government have fucked the country SO much that if we are going to go then NOW is the time to leave - deal with all the pain in one step.

Then I think about the people I know who are reliant on fucking foodbanks already whilst the tories whistle about the lowest unemployment ever and give my head a wobble.

I think people should see this referendum as a vote for the long term, not a vote on the economy in the short term.

I agree we should look long term

I don't doubt that if we vote out the economy will struggle to adjust at first but it will

We are in a situation where far too many people rely on top up benefits to get by how can't that be right. We have a growing number of 100k+ earners yet for many on the lowest wages they haven't seen an increase in years yet house prices and costs of living has risen

And we keep being told we are the fifth richest country in the world yet the NHS is at breaking point, public services constantly being cut and we have a growing number of people relying on food banks

So who benefits from all this wealth we supposedly have

I am out we need a change in the direction we are going ans that downer just include the government we vote in every five years

Yes, voting out may not be the solution to the problem, but everyone doing nicely out of the present system should take it as "a warning shot across the bow."

OP, I'm really sorry you are worried about the future and your Mum. I apologise for being rude earlier. I suffer from anxieties too and know how horrible it can be.

For anyone else who is anxious about the unlikely event that we Leave the EU, I am going to repeat Jelliedeels post again - with an additional note from Milly on another thread. The post is actually from Chris Baird - and please see Milly's note at the end before you comment. Thanks.

"Seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts. Here are some:

You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.

You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.

You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.

You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).

You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.

You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).

The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.

Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.

Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.

You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.

You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS. Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change. British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect. The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement.

You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!

What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect. You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future."

The link to Chris's page is below. There is an update with even more detail if you scroll down. Please look at it before jumping in with niggles about the detail relating to EEA etc.

www.facebook.com/chris.baird.1654

Enthusiasm
"
We are in a situation where far too many people rely on top up benefits to get by how can't that be right. We have a growing number of 100k+ earners yet for many on the lowest wages they haven't seen an increase in years yet house prices and costs of living has risen "

Sorry, it may be that I am reacting badly to my drugs today, but I just want to check that I understand your argument - you think that poor people are being let down by us staying in the EU, and you believe that Iain Duncan Smith, Michael Gove and Boris Johnson are trying to get us out to help those people? That they have the best interests of people at the margins of society at heart?

toad - is "It is pretty much all bullshit showing either a massive misunderstanding or a purposefully deceitful outlook that you are clearly just posting on every thread" classed as a niggle?

toadworthy That post is almost entirely incorrect. The economy won't benefit to the tune of billions. We are potentially voting to leave the EEA and we will have to re-establish our WTO relationships -
Interesting blogpost in the FT today on what could happen post-BREXIT. Shows the kind of mess that can be expected, explains that they may need to call a snap election but it's too early etc. Various constitutional cans of worms.

next.ft.com/content/f015a0f5-e5fc-3f42-a6c6-990d0a3527de
The likeliest outcome is that a post-Cameron government would choose to pull Britain out of the EU’s single market. Participation in the single market requires acceptance of free movement of labour. This principle is anathema to much of the Leave camp. In their view, it causes excessive immigration into Britain. If on June 24 the Brexit forces are celebrating victory, they will undoubtedly interpret it, in part, as a vote against high immigration.

Do people really think that a BJ/Gove/IDS administration will concern the rich?

Do they really think they are going to sink billions into public services?

Fuck a duck.

Well we will have more control over where our money is spent

But the remain party is also not providing us with details how this can be changed there won't be change it will just carry on as it is and the gap between the rich and poor getting wider

I think it's worth taking that risk because I personally can not understand how it's quite got like this and i don't just blame the Tories

We have a choice to rid ourselves of a Tory government in 2020 we won't for many years have the option to vote out of the EU

And again who is really benefitting from us being such a wealthy country

Yes it is terrifying.

GetaHaircut - if a BJ/G/IDS administration don't spend money how you want, at least you can vote them out in a general election. Shame the same could not be said for Brussels.

I would like the Remain party to tell us what they think the EU will look like in say 5years time when the next wave of (poor) countries join and how they intend to control the ensuing immigration that history shows that will bring.

Also what happens if Cameron's renegotiation proposals are voted out after June 23rd (as they are not yet voted on by the other 27 nations)?

enthusiasm - more control over something which amounts to 0,34% of GDP (2014)

No i don't think the conservative end of the Conservative party will suddenly splash out on publuc spending. I do think they would offer some form of protectionism which would benefit some while hurting others. The people hurting now would be looking for a favourable change in the wind.

but we are not Norway we have a much much bigger population and our trade is higher

Norway has a higher standard of living and healthcare than we do its not Norway I have concerns of becoming like its countries like Italy and Spain that have very high unemployment rates especially amoung young people and again this growing gap between the wealthy and poor

Wow, the banker bashing is quite astounding. Do you know how much financial services contributes to our economy? I work in a bank. I'm not a banker and I don't earn a fortune but I do support a nanny, cleaner, gardener, have a builder working on my house, I go to restaurants which employ waiters, chefs, cleaners etc etc. My bank is planning to move its European ops to Frankfurt in a Brexit scenario. That's me out of work and all those other people impacted too. Is it REALLY worth it?

That's me being selfish though, but looking after the interests of our country and our country only of course isn't.

dog - well the UK will first have to agree to the next enlargement, there's a veto. As things develop in the next years,we can assess whether it will be positive or negative for xx country to join.

Here's a long analysis of the renegotiation deal - basically it's binding but there could be elements that have issues. eulawanalysis.blogspot.be/2016/02/the-final-ukeu-renegotiation-deal-legal.html

We heard threats from the city when there was a fear that they would be far more heavily taxed it didn't happen

Whatever government is in will keep somewhat bow down to the city as it's become too powerful

And really will all these bankers up and leave and go to Frankfurt and work for far less be taxed higher I doubt it

The economy is one of the reasons I want to Leave. The further we are removed from the Eurozone, the better. Being part of the Eurozone has had massive adverse effects on the economies of Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy, and most of all, Greece. Greece is in financial meltdown and will suffer the consequences of their fast-track backdoor EU accession for generations. The rest of the EU isn’t doing well compared to the rest of the world.

The UK is protected to a certain extent by not being in the Eurozone, but if we remain in the EU we are tying our future to a failing model whose prospects aren’t very bright. Twenty-odd years of the Euro hasn’t delivered the glorious future it promised, and the planned accession of many more poorer countries is only going to weaken the EU economically. It strikes me that the whole EU project is rapidly turning out to be nothing more than a gigantic failed experiment, but nobody’s brave enough to stand up and point out that the Emperor’s wearing no clothes.