Anyone else really worried now?

[MrsBlackthorn]

My work has started quietly drawing up contingency plans for if Brexit happens. Same at DH's work. Could mean lots of jobs moving to Germany and Ireland at both our firms. We're already seeing far fewer people investing or spending money.

I'm bloody terrified. Could lose my job. House could end up in negative equity. And for what?

I don't even think it's "project fear" from the government anymore... News today showed investors are taking money out of the UK faster than anytime since the crash. People with "skin in the game" voting with their money.

I understand that for lots of people the EU referendum isn't about money. however, because of a lot of it leaving, stopping coming in, or just simply being worth less... Well that leaves us screwed for a very long time. Fewer jobs. Less tax money coming in - so less money for the NHS and so on. So even if we 'take back control', of what exactly. what will we be 'in control' of?

I'm really worried about "Leave" happening and me and my family being utterly f*ed in a few months time as a result. Has the country lost its mind?

Anyone else worried about where this leaves us?

Yes if they don't help employees to relocate.

I think leaving will benefit the UK poor and those who haven't yet managed to buy a house or save for much in the way of pension or other assets. Remaining IN will benefit our elites and the asset wealthy. I'm personally in favour of remaining IN the EU. But I do think a policy measure that benefits the poor of society is a good reason to vote for it.

I don't think people should elevate Mrs Blackthorn's individual circumstances above their own.

Then the issue is your employer that doesn't value their employees long term

No, the issue is that the company has a primary duty to its shareholders. If the costs of having a main manufacturing plant outside the EU affect the profitability or viability of their business, it is entirely reasonable that they move to a better location.

And what about their duty to all their employees? If they maintain a manufacturing facility outside the EU that is costing rather than making the company money, what about the jobs that will be lost elsewhere in the business as the company contracts or profits to reinvest in the business reduce?

Businesses exist to make money for their owners or shareholders. Good businesses will treat their employees well. But expecting any company to put long-term employment security for each and every one of its employees ahead of its profitability or long-term viability is a curious approach.

So they are moving their business out of the UK for financial advantage.

It's interesting, when steel workers, or fishermen, or miners, or retail workers lose their jobs due to changes brought by globalisation, we all say how sad and shrug our shoulders. We say they will have to adapt and retrain and make themselves fit into the new situation. It's often a long term, economically devastating effect.

Now that bankers and academics may face a short term shock, we should all do everything we can to buffer them.

I am thinking that the people who have been doing well out of the status quo should have given more care to those who haven't been. Luckily we live in a democracy with universal suffrage, so these inequities are eventually self-correcting. Thus the referendum. The EU itself is no where near as democratically responsive. So this sort of social and political frustration would have no orderly channel.

Yes if they don't help employees to relocate

Huh? If the UK has left the EEA then it won't be possible for a UK employer to relocate its factory workers to the EU. No free movement works in both directions!

ArundelTomb what's the basis behind your thinking on this? I think the asset wealthy always survive but the poor find it hard to survive a period of insecurity and fall further down - therefore leaving would have a greater impact on the poor .

There's another aspect that is often not mentioned as well - the poorest regions of the EU tend to do pretty well out of regional funding. In the UK - has included Cornwall. www.independent.co.uk/student/istudents/what-has-the-eu-ever-done-for-education-in-the-poorest-part-of-britain-quite-a-lot-actually-9900424.html

The ideals of the EU include the concept of solidarity - targeting funding across the EU to the poorest areas to help bring everybody up. NB the decisions/ requests for funding is managed by the region by the way.

So they are moving their business out of the UK for financial advantage.

How so?

80Kgirl who says that bankers will be the worst affected ? I don't get that impression. economic insecurity hits the poor the hardest.

Also - the EU doesn't in fact shrug its shoulders when workers lose their jobs due to globalisation - check out the ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=326 - European Globalisation Adjustment Fund (EGF).

"The European Globalisation Adjustment Fund provides support to people losing their jobs as a result of major structural changes in world trade patterns due to globalisation, e.g. when a large company shuts down or production is moved outside the EU, or as a result of the global economic and financial crisis."

Though I guess if we leave we won't have access to that either!

So they are moving their business out of the UK for financial advantage

Well, businesses do tend to make decisions on this basis ;)

But in the case of my employer, the particular sector involved would be among the most affected by having to trade on WTO terms, and I imagine the alternative to moving the factory to the EU would simply be to cease making the items in question. Either way, the workers involved lose their jobs. Not the managers, of course, as it will remain possible for highly skilled employees to move around the world.

No, I'm more concerned about what's happening in the eurozone particularly the PIGS countries. I see Greece has recently been given another shed load of money by the EU to keep it afloat and it was kept very hush hush. I'm of the opinion that all the eurozone bad news will come out after the referendum.

The remain campaign wrote to 4000 economists begging them to endorse their campaign. Only 600 did so. Hardly convincing.

It is clear even from the treasurys dodgy dossier that the economic effects will be slight, whereas the undemocratic direction the EU is travelling is deeply worrying.

Junker is calling for an EU army. He will get it too and already has 65000 men under arms ( the eurocorps) who wear the EU logo and stand to attention when the EU anthem is played. Entirely under the command of the EU.

Rather than worrying about a few pennies either way worry about your children being conscripted into an EU war with Russia.

Both my work and DH's work are also seriously drawing up contingency plans. Scary.

spinflight sorry you just totally lost any respect I had for you. conscripted into an EU army against Russia? Wow ! Bizarre fearmongering or what. The EU Army is not going to happen unless the UK (and all the other Member States) are in favour. It's not going to happen. www.politico.eu/article/waging-war-on-the-myth-of-an-eu-army-referendum-britain-brexit-debate/

If you're concerned about Russia then best to stay in the EU. It benefits Putin to see a fragmented, weakened EU. Surprise surprise the Russian funding Front National (Marine le Pen) supports Brexit.

www.euractiv.com/section/elections/news/us-to-investigate-russian-efforts-to-weaken-eu/

Maybe you just did the Boris 'dead cat' trick - you know the one where you're losing the argument so you throw a dead cat on the table and everyone talks about that rather than the issues...

Rather than worrying about a few pennies either way worry about your children being conscripted into an EU war with Russia

Politically unlikely while so many major players in the EUget their main energy supplies from Russia. The

Not trying to get people to panic into supporting your cause are you?

Do you know what they are SleepyRoo?

"I don't think people should elevate Mrs Blackthorn's individual circumstances above their own."

Jesus Christ. Why on earth do you think I would expect you to. I said I was worried about my job and family. I asked if others will feel the same.

If the economy tanks it will be the poorest who bear the brunt. If bank's move their domicile, the bankers would likely be able to move with them on highly skilled visas. It's the admin people, HR, support staff, IT and so on who will be left without jobs. (I work for a bank but am not a banker).

If manufacturers move operations to countries within the EU, it's frontline workers who lose jobs.

My mum is a part-time travel agent on a low income. If Brexit happens her business will be absolutely screwed due to confusion about visas and travel, and the recession that is likely to occur.

It's not just a tiny minority of people in high powered jobs who will be f*ed here. In fact, the 1% are most likely to weather it unscathed.

Of course I'm not expecting anyone to prioritise my needs over their own. But as a person with a flat (with a mortgage) and a job, I'm hardly in a minority in the country. And I am worried about this leap in the dark. I simply asked if others are worried. It seems they are.

I can honestly say that I've not given it a moments thought. Nobody knows what will happen - I suspect very little either way

Stand by for greater economic turmoil in the EU. Then see all the businesses move back to the UK!

Yes OP to answer your question, I am really worried now! Up until very recently i would have said no way would there be a brexit , as people are not that ill informed or stupid enough to throw our future away.

However, having seen and heard lots of leave voters describing why they want to leave, (immigration, wanting Britain to be great again) i realise i'd forgotten about the stupidity of the average British voter. [shocked]

Sorry op - all you say is if this if that... Then say mums business would be screwed, banks will be screwed.

What's your evidence. I'm sure your mum has to deal with visas now it will just be different countries.

HSBC is Hong Kong and Shanghai nothing to do with eu. I'm sure we will still need uk banking.

What is the evidence you have that makes you think it's going to be dreadful

Jelliedeels your post is confusing me. HSBC is a major force in the UK / Europe/ Banking / Trading. Don't understand why you think it's nothing to do with the EU. As a global/ EU trader they sure understand what's at stake.

Some evidence - Already there's a lot of Asset flight just because of the 'threat' of Brexit (telegraph article today), there will be an enormous amount of difficulties because businesses will be in a very unclear situation as to how they can trade. This could take years. a lot of people have posted stating their companies think they may have to close if they have to operate under WTO only rather than EU...

Nearly my point is it is not a just uk or Europe bank!

We already have thousands of companies that deal with World trade not just eu.

Maybe people need to think about how they can adapt their businesses rather than just saying they will close at every chance they get