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Brexit

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Original poster

To ask if you think we will stay or go?

535 replies

TheoriginalLEM · 17/05/2016 17:21

sorry its the EU.

i don't know that much but my gut feeling is we should stay.

however i think we will leave because strength of feeling seems to lay with the leavers wheras i think stayers might beless likely to vote or be in the not that fussed camp.

OP posts:
ThroughThickAndThin01 · 18/05/2016 11:47

That's brave Alpaca, I've suddenly become very quiet on the matter. Too many (Slightky drunken) parties where too many people asume I'm an 'in'.

I now am a 'dont know' amongst my wider circle of friends, despite being a definte 'leave'

squoosh · 18/05/2016 11:50

I'm getting far less grief off the auto pilot left wing sheep than I expected, mainly because I'm continuing to use my sense of humour and maintaining my key stance

Or maybe your friends are perfectly capable of respecting your decision?

Just a thought.

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 18/05/2016 11:51

You are right though; it gives you a platform to get your opinion across and convert.

I would say my family and close friends are split roughly 50:50.

mummymeister · 18/05/2016 11:51

I am for leaving, but I think we wont.

we will stay in and then within a month there will be some horrendous crap coming out of the EU - all the bad news stories that they are burying at the moment and all those on the fence at the moment who ended up voting stay will be moaning like the clappers.

it happened in Scotland with their referendum. it will happen with this one.

There are net contributors to the EU, us and Germany. that says it all to me.

squoosh · 18/05/2016 11:52

It's as though I've encouraged them to say what they think, rather than hide from the shouters with their Stay scaremongering.

Inspirational.

squoosh · 18/05/2016 11:57

all the bad news stories that they are burying at the moment and all those on the fence at the moment who ended up voting stay will be moaning like the clappers.

it happened in Scotland with their referendum. it will happen with this one.

Bad news stories? Like the one that showed the SNP's projected oil revenue figures to be wildly exaggerated?

Yeah, the people who voted No were gutted they hadn't gone along with that.

Noodledoodledoo · 18/05/2016 12:32

I have heard nothing concrete to make me vote leave. All I hear from the Leave side is rubbishing the arguments made to stay or gimmicks. On the news over the last two nights (on not just one channel as well) we have had Boris doing his gimmicks - ironing at an underwear factory, burning a large cheque in a furnace vs Stay campaign giving real information, in mature forums, and facts and figures, from cross party members so no party politics involved.

All the 'big' names in the leave campaign as far as I can see are doing it for personal gain only.

Agree with pp who said we may not get the laws we want from the EU but is a democracy - I don't get the outcomes from our government currently I have a habit of living in safe conservative seats so I could say our current home grown system is also not democratic. My MP is incredibly right wing, I have emailed him on various policies but sadly he is a party line towing MP so I do not have any kind of influence.

BarbaraofSeville · 18/05/2016 13:28

*If we leave what will happen to health and safety, human rights and workers rights, the EU protects us in these areas. Not to mention maternity leave and pay.

I think the stay campaign are using this as a scare tactic to get people to vote to stay.

Do people really believe that these rights and benefits will cease if we leave*

This is my fear because our current Government don't exactly have a great track record for protecting the average person do they?

They would be quite happy for everyone to be queueing up at the docks every morning hoping to get a days work.

I hope we stay but fear that the vote will be to leave because too many people will vote that way 'because of the immigrants coming over here to steal our jobs and get a load of benefits and free houses all at the same time' Hmm.

wasonthelist · 18/05/2016 15:11

Agree with pp who said we may not get the laws we want from the EU but is a democracy
The EU has some elements of democracy, but there also some profoundly undemocratic aspects - even if you leave aside how little influence we have as just one country - pretty much powerless to stop things that are bad for the UK if the majority of the EU wants to do them. The fact is, a lot of directives are made by the Commission which is an unelected body.

- I don't get the outcomes from our government currently I have a habit of living in safe conservative seats so I could say our current home grown system is also not democratic

I'm not getting the logic of this - do you mean "our domestic system is shite and undemocratic so it doesn't matter that the EU is too"? I 100% agree about being disenfranchised by our ridiculous electoral system, but this has nothing to do with the EU referendum - it certainly isn't a reason to argue in favour (or against) EU membership.

wasonthelist · 18/05/2016 15:14

Barabara - you seem to accept that the EU is undemocratic (it passes laws that our elected government won't) - that is fine as long as the EU is doing stuff you agree with. No doubt you feel the tampon tax was also a great thing we got from Europe?

wasonthelist · 18/05/2016 15:17

Just because Britain doesn't always like the laws passed and are often outvoted doesn't mean it is undemocratic.
So having laws which very few/no UK voters wanted imposed on us is democracy? How?

Winterbiscuit · 18/05/2016 15:19

The EU is no more than a pseudo-democracy. It's keeping powers further removed from the people than a democracy should. Lobbying from large companies seems to carry a good deal of weight, whereas the elected MEPs can't even propose legislaton, it's all done by the unelected commission.

Motheroffourdragons · 18/05/2016 15:30

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

wasonthelist · 18/05/2016 15:33

How about this Dutch trawler, which has 23% of England's fish quota and lands all it's fish in Holland?

britishseafishing.co.uk/cornelis-vrolijk/

wasonthelist · 18/05/2016 15:35

This is how EU democracy works -

Parker231 · 18/05/2016 15:39

Am looking forward to the vote - and it's a leave one from me. If nothing else it'll be a way of getting rid of Cameron!

wasonthelist · 18/05/2016 15:41

if we don't follow the Norway model, then we will struggle to trade with Europe at all, which again doesn't bear thinking about.

And you accuse Brexiters of spin? The Irony! We aren't Norway. We spend billions on Audis, VWs, BMWs, Miele, Bosch etc. Do you really think that the Germans with just put up the shutters? It doesn't make any sense at all - and that's just one example.

wasonthelist · 18/05/2016 15:45

Its not a perfect institution, but then democracy in the UK isn't that great either as we don't have proportional representation and you happen to be a labour voter in a safe tory seat.

So this is seriously your contention? Our system's a bit rubbish so we may as well shackle ourselves to another undemocratic system.?

But if you do, you just allow extremist parties a foothold, and I think that's why it was rejected when we had the referendum then.

And yet, the EU which you such a fan of, offers us PR in the elections for MEPs - isn't that wrong and risky, allowing extremist parties a foothold? Oh no, it's the EU, so miraculously it's democratic for them, but not for us.

You aren't making any logical sense.

Motheroffourdragons · 18/05/2016 15:46

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

LittleLionMansMummy · 18/05/2016 15:47

I'm wanting to stay but think the democratic will of the electorate will determine that we should leave. I base this purely on my membership of a caravanning Facebook group. If there were a group of people I thought might be more pro-European it is this group. But a snap poll suggested an overwhelming majority said they'd vote leave. I don't think it'll be an overwhelming majority either way in real life tbh, but I do think there's a lot more passion from the Leave campaign (similar to the Scottish referendum).

ExConstance · 18/05/2016 15:48

To oversimplify and exaggerate a bit I hope we will stay in. When I look at the "in" brigade there are quite a few individuals and organisations I respect. In the out brigade it is Wetherspoons and a bunch of people I really don't trust - especially Boris-does-Trump who think it would be an awfully big adventure to change everything in a way they cannot do more than speculate about. I'm at a vulnerable age, needing my pension to grow a bit before I retire, hoping to sell up and move, need a job until then. Vague speculation about ending immigration and doing deals with Canada isn't enough for me.

I feel the whole quality of the debate has ben very poor, with hyperbole and scare mongering on both sides - especially the outties scaremongering about the innies scaremongering. It was a little ray of sunshine to hear from Michael Heseltine yesterday.

ExConstance · 18/05/2016 15:49

And another thing - Eric Pickles going on repeatedly about having "done some stuff" the other day did not promote the view that he actually knew what he was talking about.

wasonthelist · 18/05/2016 15:49

we cannot know what the model will look like when we are out

And yet, you contend -

but costs will increase....

Either you can know, or you can't - you can't have it both ways.

With a bit of luck we'll get a good result that means we won't have to participate in the failed experiment to create a United States of Europe any more.

LittleLionMansMummy · 18/05/2016 15:51

It was a little ray of sunshine to hear from Michael Heseltine yesterday

Yep, never thought I'd hear myself siding with a Tory. It was equally refreshing hearing from John Major on R4 a couple of weeks ago too. That's the interesting thing about this issue - it really isn't party political (except for UKIP of course!)

moonbells · 18/05/2016 15:53

Just to drop in another thought that hasn't been mentioned so far up thread:
At the moment any of our young people can travel to an EU country and enrol in their postgrad education if they have the correct qualifications. I have a friend whose son is at University in the Netherlands. All their degrees are in English. He is paying very little in tuition.

Compare with here, where this week they've announced another probable rise in fees.

We will lose the right to go to the EU to study with low fees if we leave.