How will you vote in the EU referendum-Leave or Stay?

[BritBrit]

How will you be voting? Can admin add a poll?

Nationalism is not the same as patriotism, we are an island but we have also been a melting pot of cultures for thousands of years.

See the language you are using, origins are in a Dutch Fresian dialect, and combined with Latin (those pesky Romans that we didn't repel) Celtic, German, Norse, French, Hindi etc etc.

"The EU is too expensive a club with too many rules, quotas, laws and restrictions. Like communism it does not fit the human psyche."

Oh really? I thought you didn't understand politics but you now feel able to make that pronouncement.

Life outside the EU will most likely be far worse economically, far worse for standard workers as rights get eroded etc.

It wouldn't really have a significant impact on immigration.

A couple of hundred thousand fewer immigrants settling here each year, and all their future descendants, is significant. Plus the huge numbers that will want to come from the new EU member countries.

far worse for standard workers as rights get eroded etc.

Where's the evidence? There's no public wish for this to happen. And if you were going to blame the Tories, they'll be voted out after a few years as that's what always happens.

It wouldn't really have a significant impact on immigration.

How do you know? Are you talking about overall numbers, refugees or selecting economic migrants for their skills? Is being able to make the relevant decisions in the UK "insignificant"?

*far worse for standard workers as rights get eroded etc.

Where's the evidence? There's no public wish for this to happen. And if you were going to blame the Tories, they'll be voted out after a few years as that's what always happens.*

Exactly!!!

Where's the evidence that the trade deals will be crap?

And oh look.. now we are being threatened with "if we leave we are at risk of no peace" - oh bugger off. So because we leave we automatically become an enemy? I don't think so. What is NATO for? What is trident for?

FFS people are so stupid.

They really just roll them out don't they?
Still awaiting another "vow" and comment from the queen.

If leaving the EU was going to throw us into war, make us all homeless and jobless and worthless there wouldn't even be a question of a referendum. If it was going to be THAT BAD there just wouldn't be one. Who cares if it was promised by DC it just wouldn't happen!

And if you were going to blame the Tories, they'll be voted out after a few years as that's what always happens.

I will absolutely blame the Tories. They'd have at least 4 years to shape Britain's exit strategy, and damage can be long-lasting decades after a government has left office. Especially since the Brexit Tories would have increased legitimacy and clout, and they are the ones pushing the erosion of rights in the name of making Britain more "competitive".

"Where's the evidence that the trade deals will be crap?"
How can you possibly think that we'd get a better deal as a much smaller country rather than as a major bloc? Is there any evidence of a small country getting better deals than larger blocs ever in the history of trade? Take off your George Cross glasses and actually look at these issues FFS!

There has been nothing to suggest it will be worse. Has France, Germany or any other country said "hey Britain, if you leave you'll get a crap deal"?
Small in size but not small in economy.

So come on Hover - what's your take on todays "no peace" news?

MYTH: BRITAIN CANNOT SURVIVE ECONOMICALLY OUTSIDE THE EU IN A WORLD OF TRADING BLOCS
Major economies eg. Japan (one of the world’s largest) are not in a trading bloc.

The EU is not the place where most economic growth is occurring. The EU’s share of world GDP is forecast to decline to 22% in 2025, down from 37% in 1973.

-Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, yet they export far more per capita to the EU than the UK does; this suggests that EU membership is not a prerequisite for a healthy trading relationship.

-Furthermore, Britain’s best trading relationships are generally not within the EU, but outside, i.e. with countries such as the USA and Switzerland.

-The largest investor in the UK is not even an EU country, but the US.

www.betteroffout.net/the-case/10-eu-myths-about-withdrawl/

Has France, Germany or any other country said "hey Britain, if you leave you'll get a crap deal"?

Well, the US and Japan? And the EU has been very clear that Britain would not get anything like the advantages it's enjoying right now, unless it agrees to take on the obligations that come with the advantages.

what's your take on todays "no peace" news?

There were no such news... what Cameron said was

"Can we be so sure that peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt? Is that a risk worth taking? I would never be so rash as to make that assumption."

Can we be so sure that peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt?
Yes.
NATO.

We do have what 15-20 European countries that aren't in the EU. Christ we can just trade with them and we can all flourish :)

How comes there's only like 4 of us on this thread, where is everyone else?

Nationalism is not the same as patriotism, we are an island but we have also been a melting pot of cultures for thousands of years.

We have indeed, but the pot was always able to allow melting because numbers of each culture were small. It is good to have a mix of peoples, but for any host population to be overwhelmed is not.

Does anyone here believe that what Merkel did in inviting 1 m into EU was correct?
Does anyone here believe that our various govts have been correct in allowing virtually unopposed migration?

Being in the EU club is expensive. Do you recall that due to UK's particularly good income in 2014 (from being outside of the EuroZone), the EU nevertheless demanded that we pay them £1.7 billion as a rake off? The EU conducts itself like the HMRC or a greedy manager who demands a rake-off from work you have found & gained by yourself, without his assistance.

We had to pay because it was in the membership agreement, so our prosperity in exports was still 'taxed' by the EU. This means we as a country can NEVER get ahead because prosperity, gained by our own accomplishments, will always be subject to a 'manager's 15%'.

Whisky, I've been on this thread for a while (have namechanged during it). I stopped posting on it due to some unpleasant posts addressed to me, but I am still reading it.

Don't forget that the more vociferous Remainers are those who believe they have a juicy job waiting for them in some small but profitable corner of the EU.

Or a business job. Look at Danny Alexander (who is now a Sir), ex-LibDem. He's landed a job as VP in Beijing even though the original JD required 20 yrs financial experience and Alexander has 5! Wheels within wheels.

Remember Neil Kinnock. We have the Kinnock Three still in politics. Neil Kinnock was rejected by the electorate in this country TWICE, but he went on to land a job As EU Commisioner which gave him far more influence about what occurs in the UK and other member countries. Is that right? He and Glynis are now multi-millionaires, because they can live well on expenses without touching their salaries and doing what is essentially Admin jobs.

WHISKY - I think people are at work. Evening is best time.

"Don't forget that the more vociferous Remainers are those who believe they have a juicy job waiting for them in some small but profitable corner of the EU."

Really? And your evidence for this is...?

Hi Look - that is a shame, people can get really nasty in these debates.

Ok yes, I really should do some work :D

Hi Look - that is a shame, people can get really nasty in these debates. There are certainly some abusive posts. One poster in particular has had many deletions.A sign they have lost the argument when they have to resort to personal attacks. Its an annoyance.

Don't forget that the more vociferous Remainers are those who believe they have a juicy job waiting for them in some small but profitable corner of the EU. I am sure there are jobs waiting for Clegg and co somewhere in the EU. Look at the dreadful Neil Kinnock's profiteering from the EU gravy train.

Amelia,

"It is good to have a mix of peoples, but for any host population to be overwhelmed is not."

EU immigration makes up 4% of the population, there is no "overwhelming".

"Does anyone here believe that what Merkel did in inviting 1 m into EU was correct?"

Yes I do actually, I think it was the humane thing to do.

The £1.6 bn was not a figure for a year, it was a figure for a revised way of calculating the value of payments since 1995. The UK was not the only country that paid in more. Also in fiscal terms its very small about 0.24% of public spending.

"The EU conducts itself like the HMRC or a greedy manager who demands a rake-off from work you have found & gained by yourself, without his assistance. "

No all countries agreed to the new way of calculating the payments, poor analogy.

I watched a BBC discussion programme on Sunday about the ‘evil’ British Empire. Again, the same self-flagellation designed to make today’s young believe that the British Empire’s errors were somehow unusual. Nonsense of course. It was left to a Sikh gentleman to state the factual pros and cons, and I bet not one audience member would like to live elsewhere in the world today despite some of their criticism!

Being continually reminded about misdeeds, the slave trade, British presence in India can only reinforce negativity against one's own country in the young whose grasp of history is shockingly abysmal. My first thought was Why this topic now, and why dedicate the whole programme to it, which usually carries debates on 3 topics.

Could it have been BBC’s way of harping on about Britain's so-called bad past, stirring up guilt, and conveying that cooperation with other nations (i.e. EU) is the way forward. I wouldn’t put it past them.

Forgetting, of course, that the EU itself is an empire because it is continually adding territory to its coffers and furthering the provision of cheap labour for the elite. Cleverly done though, because people do not realise they have already been captured.

Forgetting, of course, that the EU itself is an empire because it is continually adding territory to its coffers

the EU is a federation of independent states that all have a voice in how it's run and can choose to leave whenever they want, i.e. the opposite of an empire.

I asked "Does anyone here believe that what Merkel did in inviting 1 m into EU was correct?"

And a poster replied: Yes I do actually, I think it was the humane thing to do.

The first priority of any govt is to protect its own. That is invioble.

The rescue was supposed to be from the Syrian war zone, but only 20 percent of those who came in are Syrian. Instead, Mrs Merkel by her actions allowed the rape, groping and pawing and many women in Germany-Denmark-Sweden-Finland et al, plus other obscenities. She knew how men from those various regions of the world behave back home, what life is like for women there, and how segregated their societies are. She also knows that the majority are uneducated and will not cooperate with women. You can forget about your 4% of population, because the recently arrived are placed in the big towns and cities.

This is deliberately setting the cat amongst the pigeons, because it is not just these events that continue to happen but impact on the behaviour and mobility of European women and their right to go about their day without multiple sexual approaches.

In England we are already seeing this. Man migrant refuses to be supervised by a woman; man refuses to be supervised by a white woman; man refuses to work alongside women of any kind; man leaves job whenever he feels like it, wanders back, no explanation.

How do you suggest we proceed with this sort of attitude? They will always be financially supported and housed, so fear no repercussions.

Where to start with that load of drivel I don't know. More stuff regarding immigration and women's safety and more xenophobic nonsense.

It's complicated and I don't know what the right answer is.

But I do know that I don't want to face my grandchildren in 50 years time and have to explain to them why we, the rich well-fed Europeans, decided to let men, women and children (how conveniently people forget the women and children) be killed, starved and raped at our doorstep, rather than allow them to escape death and persecution.

I'd rather explain how we tried to do the humane thing, and realised that it came with challenges and negative consequences that we then had to deal with.

In my mind I have this scene from the end of Titanic, when you have the people drowning and freezing and begging for the half-empty lifeboats to come back. Yeah, sure, rationally you can understand why they didn't come back, they were the lucky few who were safe and they feared for their own lives. But when you watch the movie, you despise them. Or at least I do.