How will you vote in the EU referendum-Leave or Stay?

[BritBrit]

How will you be voting? Can admin add a poll?

A Telegraph article from yesterday:

Prime Ministers listen too much to voters, complains EU's Juncker

"Prime Ministers must stop listening so much to their voters and instead act as “full time Europeans”, according to Jean-Claude Juncker."

"Elected leaders are making life “difficult” because they spend too much time thinking about what they can get out of EU and kowtowing to public opinion, rather than working on “historic” projects such as the Euro, he said."

I have no doubt Farage is sincere in his belief. Doesn't mean he's not misguided.

Presumably Nigel's marriage to a German means he also qualifies for an EU passport, so has an escape route!
Bit like Boris with his US citizenship.

Winterbiscuit, I realize this is meant to make Juncker look bad, but in many cases he has a point. For example Merkel's terrible decisions about Greece were motivated by her desire to score political points domestically, rather than by what made sense for Greece, for Europe or even for Germany in the long run.

Onlylovers it's hard to build a cohesive community if the differences outnumber the similarities, much in the same way a common language helps, common values and beliefs bind a group. I come from a country which has its flaws like any other, but values and respects a woman's position in society and as a human being. There are some countries and cultures who devalue a woman's contribution to society, and I wouldn't live there. However members of those countries want to move freely within the EU and in some cases, impose their beliefs and value structures on the citizens of their adopted home. Several of these prospective members don't meet basic living standards or even observe human rights legislation.
An example would be some new residents of East London abusing and threatening women, telling them that Islamic rules apply...

Having a common language doesn't seem to be doing much for cohesion in the US. I think that in many ways we have much more in common with our neighbours in Europe than republicans and democrats do with each other.

I think that in many ways we have much more in common with our neighbours in Europe than republicans and democrats do with each other.

so true

a tea party evangelical from Alabama has precious little in common with a Vermont liberal, or with a Californian latino (maybe not even language, actually)

in Europe we are so close to each other and so used to each other, in a weird way it emphasizes our small differences and makes us blind to everything that we do have in common. We can't see the forest for the trees.

The downside of aiming for "similarities" between the EU states means that their various differening charactereristics will be gradually undermined. At that point people could think they may as well become a federal EU as all the countries will by then be so similar anyway.

But that will never happen. All the individual EU countries have their own distinct national identity and take huge pride in that. A trading bloc like the EU is never going to erase thousands of years of history. Can you see the French ever being anything other than French? I can't.

I get the theoretical problem Winterbiscuit, but in practice this is very unlikely to happen because each state will want to promote its own identity (and rightly so), and in any case cultures are highly resilient, especially when there are distinct languages.

Frankly I can't really imagine a point when the UK will be so similar to Italy that it'll say "enough with this silly identity thing, let's just all become one country". If it ever comes, I give it a good few hundred years.

Also, sending you back to the US example here... it is incredibly culturally diverse, much more so than Europeans usually realize. Partly because of the strength of state vs federal identity. You try and tell a Texan they're just like the rest of the US

Pani, those new residents of East London are such a small minority. People from all kinds of cultures have lived in the UK for a long time and, generally speaking, we all rub along OK.

The majority of farmers themselves want to LEAVE

www.fwi.co.uk/news/exclusive-survey-reveals-farmers-back-eu-exit.htm

Meanwhile the National Farmers Union wants to REMAIN

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36078112

Probably because Cameron was forced to admit on Wednesday that the Better Off In campaign had spent a considerable amount of time persuading unions to declare for REMAIN.

Cameron even rewarded the unions for doing so

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/27/eurosceptics-question-motives-for-trade-union-bill-climbdown

Even the Guardian noted the timing of that Tory climbdown

So a trade union at odds with the occupation it aims to represent. How novel

Frankly I can't really imagine a point when the UK will be so similar to Italy that it'll say "enough with this silly identity thing, let's just all become one country". If it ever comes, I give it a good few hundred years.

Neither could one of the founders of what has morphed into the EU, Jean Monnet. That's why he wrote that the Superstate must be done by stealth:

"Europe's nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation." Jean Monnet (Founding Father Of The EU in a letter to a friend 30th April 1952).).

It's tinfoil hat time, people.

I do enjoy a good conspiracy theory.

That being said, Super Villain Jean Monnet has been dead for almost 40 years, so you may want to update your sources.

Europe's nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation. Jean Monnet (Founding Father Of The EU in a letter to a friend 30th April 1952).)

Except no one as far as I'm aware has been able to produce the evidence Monnet actually said that.

*Except no one as far as I'm aware has been able to produce the evidence Monnet actually said that.^

Cos they didn't have internet then so there isn't a link

Monnet is a widely studied figure and the object of serious historical research. If the quote exists, it is referenced by historians by indicating the archive, manuscript reference and folio number. So that other historians can then go look up the quote for themselves. That's how you prove something without the internet.

Try President Junckers statement:

There can be no democratic choice against the EU Treaties

or

when it becomes serious you have to lie

Plus other gems in this link

en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker

That being said, Super Villain Jean Monnet has been dead for almost 40 years, so you may want to update your sources.

His evil empire lives on

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Monnet_Programme#See_also

Any those funded academic posts all promoting EU integration.

Juncker is a much better Super Villain!

But you know, the beauty is that if the democratically elected Parliament wants to get rid of him, they absolutely can.

Cos they didn't have internet then so there isn't a link 

But people have manually searched his letters & documents & found no evidence.

There can be no democratic choice against the EU Treaties

There is no democratic choice against any law. The only opinion which is binding is that of the judges hearing a case.

when it becomes serious you have to lie

Out of context one liners don’t make an argument. Juncker was talking about organising a meeting of finance ministers at the height of the euro crisis to talk about whether Greece could remain in the single currency.

But people have manually searched his letters & documents & found no evidence

He won't have it in his letters. he sent the letter to a friend.

Anyway, they took ages to find Richard III under the car park