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Brexit

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Anyone putting any plans in place in case we leave?

668 replies

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 09/04/2016 10:36

I've just checked the EU referendum current polls and it's looking very close at the moment.

I wondered if anyone is putting plans on hold, or will change any plans they have if we leave?

Personally, I am wracking my brains to think of anything which will directly affect me. Although I wonder if there will economical turmoil and whether to plan for an interest rate rise (our very high mortgage). Which will in turn affect Dhs business.

If we remain, I'd imagine it's just business as usual.

Anyone have any thoughts?

OP posts:
Shockingundercrackers · 22/04/2016 00:01

Also meant to say that Brexit might be of net benefit to Ireland. The EU breaking up / Euro tanking aside, I think global corporations currently based in the Uk for servicing English speaking and Europeam markets will almost certainly relocate. They'll go to Dublin (or maybe Cork, like Apple and the other tech companies) or Amsterdam.

You could be on a winner!

Jeanniejampots80 · 22/04/2016 01:42

You never know Shocking :) just to clarify in my opinion if you are entitled to an Irish passport for whatever reason then fire ahead :) I would :) I was just wondering if any of the vehement exiters who ads so convinced the EU need the UK so badly that they will give them all the benefits anyway were also insuring this my getting an Irish passport. If you do leave I suspect the "boats" for work will be going the other way for once. We see already getting some of your junior docs due to JH

butteredmuffin · 22/04/2016 07:38

So the British taxpayer pays to train a doctor and Ireland gets the benefit of that education...brilliant!

(Yeah...good luck to them. What Jeremy Hunt is doing is appalling. How anybody can say that the Tories would spend the "350m/week" we currently send to Brussels on the NHS and keep a straight face is beyond me. At this rate we won't have an NHS left by the next election.)

A4Document · 22/04/2016 08:53

How anybody can say that the Tories would spend the "350m/week" we currently send to Brussels on the NHS and keep a straight face is beyond me.

They certainly can't spend it on the NHS if it isn't here though.

butteredmuffin · 22/04/2016 09:06

The problem with that argument is that it implies that we will have a spare £350m/week in the bank if we leave the EU. That is complete nonsense. Anyone who says that we will is either misinformed, or being deliberately disingenuous.

FreeButtonBee · 22/04/2016 10:29

I would be applying for an Irish passport mainly to make it easier to work in Dublin if I needed to (I work in FS). Although potentially if things got really bad, I may have to consider working in Germany for a while. Definitely voting remain. Although interestingly I do have a PSI number from working in my students days so that does open some technical avenues for support I hadn't considered... I wouldn't be relying on them as a first position but it would be a potential backstop if life went really tits up.

Kids would be to preserve their position as Irish citizen ahead of future changes to citizenship rules (who know, Ireland may be forced to become more draconian with their citizenship) and all of the above to place English DH in a good position if we moved to Ireland. Having and Irish wife and Irish children would hopefully help to smooth any visa/naturalisation path for him.

We will retain dual citizenship for as long as it makes sense.

FlyingScotsman · 22/04/2016 14:31

muffin your comment about spouse from EU countries is the one thing I mentioned earlier on.
I fully agree. I believe the uk will ask for a minimum wage from that person to stay in. which will mean I need to go back to my home country.
It IS very scary times IMO.

However the comment about my DH getting my own citizenship to allow for travel etc if needed is a very good point.
What we might do then is to BOTH apply for each other citizenship to protect ourselves and our family.

FlyingScotsman · 22/04/2016 14:34

Is the 350m taking into account the money that the EU is paying?
Because surely then the UK will have to fill a lot of gaps there. I'm thinking of all the farmers that receive subsidies from Europe, a lot if attractions that have been started thanks to some EU grands, museums etc I suspect they won't do any of that though

lurked101 · 22/04/2016 14:49

It isn't 350 million a week, this is the figure without the rebate taken off. Without the money that we get back, and without the discount we get for foreign aid.

Its ridiculous that it keeps getting repeated, but hyperbole, exaggeration and willful misrepresentation of data is all they have in their locker.

butteredmuffin · 22/04/2016 15:22

Yeah, it doesn't include what comes back to us.

So, let's think about this for a second. Let's give the leave campaign the benefit of the doubt and say that leaving the EU will not have a negative impact on the economy, even in the short term.

We stop paying £350m/week to the EU. Great! But we're no longer getting anything back under the Common Agricultural Policy. Our agricultural economy can't survive without those subsidies. So either we have to maintain the existing levels of support which are currently paid out under the CAP, or we let the farmers go bust. If we let the farmers go bust we will be almost totally reliant on imported food, which isn't great from a food security point of view. So let's say we agree to maintain the existing levels of agricultural subsidies. That money has to come out of the same pot that £350m/week is going into. So we don't have a net gain of £350m/week any more.

OK, what else? How about scientific research? We are currently world leaders at this, but being in the EU is a big part of that. Our top scientists work in collaboration with top scientists from other member states, and get much better results that way. Fine, maybe they will still want to collaborate with us. Why wouldn't they? But we won't get any grant funding from the EU so we'll have to find it ourselves, out of what's left of the £350m/week after we have paid our agricultural subsidies. We could choose not to be involved, but then we will no longer be world leaders in scientific research, and we will experience a brain drain as all our top scientists go to work abroad. Our university science departments will lose their prestige and no longer attract top students from all over the world, many of whom pay high international fees on which our universities depend. So we would probably want to give some extra funding to our universities to make up for it. Or not. We could always just put regular tuition fees up to £20k per year to fill the hole. Except that (1) this will also cause a brain drain as our brightest and best students choose to study abroad instead and (2) even with fees at their current level, most students will never pay off their debts so student finance is already a black hole which will continue to grow.

So there's not much of that £350m/week left now, is there? But at least we can spend it on what we want to spend it on, without being dictated to by the EU, right?

Oh. The leave campaign are promising to spend the whole £350m/week on the NHS. Awkward. Even though others have said the farmers and the scientists won't lose their subsidies and grants.

So even in a best case scenario, this £350m/week (like Scotland's famous North Sea oil revenue) seems to have already been spent several times over.

And in a worst case scenario, if all the economists and experts are right, and our economy does suffer, and our tax revenues are down, we are not even going to be £350m/week up in the first place. Because it all comes out of the same pot, at the end of the day.

lurked101 · 22/04/2016 15:30

Its been worked out buttered that the net cost of the EU after the rebate and all return investment and international aid has been discounted is about 23p per person, per day.

butteredmuffin · 22/04/2016 15:46

Thanks lurked. So the real amount we would "save" is actually just over a quarter of the figure they're quoting, and doesn't take into account any of the economic benefits we get from being in?

Not much of a saving, is it?

hedgehogsdontbite · 22/04/2016 16:01

I hadn't considered Irish citizenship. I think I already have it automatically because my Dad was born in Ireland. That helps with free movement and certain other rights but not all.

I have a question for brexiters. Will you relax the rules around 'habitual residence' for Brits who have to return and need financial and/or housing support and the 3 year rule for university funding?

FlyingScotsman · 22/04/2016 16:08

Except that I don't think that money will be spent on on any of those....

butteredmuffin · 22/04/2016 16:15

No, me neither. Was just giving that argument the benefit of the doubt. And it appears that even if you can suspend your disbelief enough to imagine that we actually had that sum of money going spare and we wanted to spend it on those things, the sums just don't add up.

lurked101 · 22/04/2016 16:31

We technically pay in £8.5 billion more than we get back, or £23 million a day.

23/64.1 = 46.p per person, per day.

Of course this doesn't include the money given back to the private sector etc, so its actually lower.

StKildasNun · 22/04/2016 16:39

The thing is I don't think anyone knows what will happen if we leave - this is all pointless speculation.

It will prob go like the Scottish Ref - we will stay as peeps are too nervous of the unknown.

A4Document · 22/04/2016 16:53

peeps are too nervous of the unknown.

It would be disappointing if that was the case. Where is the British people's initiative, courage and entrepeneurial spirit? Has Britain lost its confidence and is that the real reason for "Remain", because the EU will reassuringly take control?

butteredmuffin · 22/04/2016 16:59

Or has Britain lost its marbles enough to vote leave? Wink

We shall see.

PigletJohn · 22/04/2016 17:21

I was shocked to hear Boris admit that what he had been describing as the "cost" of being in the EU was actually the Cost side of a cost-benefit analysis, where he had omitted the Benefit side, and did not even mention it exists.

So you might say that the Cost of having a job is thousands of pounds a year, if you add up the cost of transport, lunches, office suits, leaving cards and Twixes, (and omit the fact that you get paid a handsome salary). It would give the impression that having a job left you out of pocket.

Misleading, dishonest and scaremongering, I think.

Did anyone say "lies?"

lurked101 · 22/04/2016 17:22

The EU won't take control though will it? We've been given agreements that we can be separate from ever closer union.

As for initiative and entrepreneurial spirit? Hyperbole once again.

purits · 22/04/2016 18:01

23/64.1 = 46.p per person, per day.

My calculator says that 23million divided by 64.1 million is 35.8p.
You said earlier that it was 23p.
Are you just making up numbers?
If you use the working age population, rather than everyone eg including children, then your figures come out more like £220 per person per year.

lurked101 · 22/04/2016 18:08

Ouch. No. I read the 23 p stat in a paper and can't find a source so I went back to another to find the figure per day. Dunno what I did with that calculation though, didn't check, you are right of course.

OK so £220 per working person per year is about 4.23 a week or 60 p a day.

I checked that time lol

butteredmuffin · 22/04/2016 18:13

So about the price of a fairly cheap phone contract then? Bargain.

Alwaysinahurrynow · 22/04/2016 18:15

I'm another one looking into sorting out Irish citizenship rights for me and my children. OH would be ineligible but it's really about the EU benefits ( Free movement not social security) for my children.