In,out,shake it all about,the EU ,what's best to vote.

[Daisyonthegreen]

Nothing on here,or am I wrong,I'm a newbie so be patient with me.
Anyhow here goes it's the Referendum on the European Union on the 23 June this year.
I'm voting Leave.
How's about you guys?

Cutthewaffle - I'm not sure how you can call sending someone from a country where they lived most of their lives to a country to which their only relationship is that they happen to have citizenship by birth is "sending someone back". Surely the criminal is a product of the society he lived in most of his life, not the one he simply happened to have been born in but left soon after?

Surely the criminal is a product of the society he lived in most of his life, not the one he simply happened to have been born in but left soon after?

Foreign criminals should be returned to their country of nationality.

Springing you've not engaged with the point I was making. If someone lived in a country most/all of their life can you still insist they're foreign just because of their passport?

let's say a British baby moved to Syria as a newborn (say to live with relatives), grew up there, and then eventually, as a middle-aged man, went on a rampage and murdered/raped a bunch of people. You'd be happy to have them deported back to Britain?

I have no opinion on this by the way, just wondering how far you're taking the reasoning.

In fact politicians may have a duty of care
You liked my duty of care phrase did you Chalala?

Chalala how far do you take the reasoning on protecting human rights at any other cost?
The cost, the ultimate cost in some cases, to the people who have been battered and murdered on our streets for instance due to lax to non existent sharing of information on violent criminals coming from the EU?

Because of the hell bent idea of - Free Movement of People?

I didn't realise it was yours Step! maybe unconscious borrowing, so you have my thanks :-)

and what on earth are you going on about? I have made zero argument here or on other threads about the free movement of refugees, so is this again about my oh-so-controversial opinion that rapists should be sent to jail?

"Cutthewaffle - I'm not sure how you can call sending someone from a country where they lived most of their lives to a country to which their only relationship is that they happen to have citizenship by birth is "sending someone back". Surely the criminal is a product of the society he lived in most of his life, not the one he simply happened to have been born in but left soon after?"

Best take that up with the Australians. They did not want him in their midst. It is not relevant if he is a product of a society (whatever that means); the point is they did not want the expense of a repeat offender and it must have been a happy day when the authorities noticed that he wasnt even Australian. I believe that every country should have a 'published' list of offences and the min-to-max penalties that could be imposed. It's like having a list of charges hanging on the wall - everyone knows the score.

So much for the close ties between European partners as regards deportation. But what about letting in serious criminals. Do any of you remember the sexually-motivated killing of Alice Gross in 2014 in West London? 14 yrs of age, murdered by a Latvian who had served time back home for the murder of his wife. At least he had the courtesy to hang himself in shame. But if he hadnt, he may have been deported after a bit of prison here ..... some might say he should not have been allowed to travel outside of Latvia, but as his sentence had been served I don't think that is feasible

Look at how constrained the authorities are:
"DCI Metha said it was not Met policy to check EU offending history when Zalkalns was arrested in 2009 over a sex attack where the victim would then not give evidence which would have led to his prosecution. He also added if police had known of his murder conviction they would have looked at him at an earlier stage."

Is it beyond the wit of EU member countries to red flag all serious crims when they enter a new country by a quick scan under a machine for passport number? Or is that being discriminatory?

I think Brexit is likely to win the referendum. Because people are scared.

I think "stay" voters may be scared. For them it may appear safer not to rock the boat, to stick with the familiar even if it's not desirable, to avoid putting your head above the parapet, to fit in instead of striking out independently and confidently.

There are positive and negative arguments on both sides, yes. But there's nothing wrong with being scared, it's a scary world.

The example of the deportee I gave arrived in Oz aged 10 and was kicked out aged 66, having spent 37 yrs in Australian jails.

"He's had his visa cancelled. He is not an Australian citizen. He came to Australia many, many years ago and then very seriously abused the privilege of residency here by committing the serious crimes that he did."

Note the words used ..... he abused his residency. We in UK keep our abusers, just cant bear to part from them.

CutTheWaffle, regardless of what you and I think of the EAW, clearly the government thought it was a good deal for Britain, otherwise it wouldn't have voluntarily opted in. So what makes you think it will want to negotiate a substantially different agreement post-Brexit?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3527771/German-minister-told-police-remove-word-rape-reports-mass-migrant-sex-attacks-Cologne-new-Year-s-Eve.html
Countries who try and hide the rape of their own women are not worth being in the EU with,I shall proudly as a woman vote leave on the 23 rd of June this year.

Springing you've not engaged with the point I was making.

Oh I am Widow. I responded. That's engagement. I just didn''t agree with you.

If someone lived in a country most/all of their life can you still insist they're foreign just because of their passport?

Yes. I said that in my last post - deport them to their country of nationality.

What exactly has this to do with the EU apart from the fact that the SCJ prevents us making deportations of some criminals?

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/06/dutch-voters-reject-closer-eu-links-to-ukraine-in-referendum
The Dutch see the light and reject the EU,well done,very well done.

Yes, well done Holland. I like Ukrainians, they are good people, hard working and decent, but I believe 1 million of them would come to Britain very easily if access was loosened up. Tremendous extra hardships on accommodation, water & sewage, NHS, schools.

Voting to leave. Sad as I have always been pro-Europe/ pro EU.

I have lived in two European Countries, worked in most of them over a period of twenty years, had serious relationships with a Frenchman and an Italian, have good, good friends from all over, have German in-laws. I am not a Europhobe but the EU now is terrifying.

I agree about power blocks, about the lack of success of large groups of countries, agree that the free movement is unsustainable and mourn the erosion of our laws and autonomy.

Said with obvious sadness after a great deal of thought, BlueJug.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boom-in-migrants-heading-to-uk-with-fake-papers-5xxldpj59
We really need to be able to control our borders,the only way we can do that is by leaving the EU.

I get you're angry you were lied to, but seems to me that your beef here is with the British government, and not with the EU.

Nothing good every comes out of a conspiracy to lie to the public. Both Tory and Labour govts misled us deliberately while all the time licking their lips as the EEC, aided by Soros, grew into what it was always intended to be - Federalist Europe.

I find it extraordinary that none of you understand how things can change rapidly. Some people's lives in other parts of the world have changed overnight.

Its called 'normalcy bias.' We are walking into a catastrophe if we stay in the EU and yet many people base their voting intentions on the assumption that disasters happen to other people and wont ever happen to us.

URGENT
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/116762/signatures/new
Cameron is spending£10 million of tax payers money on a 9 page leaflet for every home to in vote,this goes against his promise not to do so.
If you wish to sign the petition please do so.

Engineers thumb
You are losing the plot talking about drunks and comparing a view that you don't agree with as being that of a drunk.
You must be pretty desperate.
I have posted many posts regards the benefits of leaving the corrupt,bullying EU
As said before we must agree to differ.
I shall post links below for the benefit of Mums here who may have missed them.

businessforbritain.org/change-or-go/
For information on the benefits of voting leave by Independent Businessmen.