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Brexit

In,out,shake it all about,the EU ,what's best to vote.

999 replies

Daisyonthegreen · 01/03/2016 12:49

Nothing on here,or am I wrong,I'm a newbie so be patient with me.
Anyhow here goes it's the Referendum on the European Union on the 23 June this year.
I'm voting Leave.
How's about you guys?

OP posts:
SpringingIntoAction · 05/04/2016 00:03

Buttered

I have qualifications in British law. They enable me to see through the fiction that the EU is a benign organisation.

butteredmuffin · 05/04/2016 00:05

I have qualifications in British law.

I am a UK-qualified practising lawyer who is studying for an LLM in EU law whilst working full-time. Who cares?

You appear to be confusing this thread with LinkedIn.

Anyway, good night.

butteredmuffin · 05/04/2016 00:06

Also, there's no such thing as "British law". It isn't a legal jurisdiction. So I'm not sure how you can have qualifications in it.

Itinerary · 05/04/2016 00:14

Anyone studying law and trying to insist that "ever closer union" is just an unhelpful soundbite - words fail me.

Quite. You'd expect there to at least be an acknowledgement that there's widespread ongoing debate about quite what "ever closer union" means.

A couple of rather shocking quotes from www.thenewfederalist.eu/demand-1-ever-closer-union

"During the negotiation of the Treaty of Maastricht some governments tried to change the wording from “closer Union” to “Federal Union” Only the firm British veto led the pro-federation proposers to giving up with this idea."

"The European Union exists because it should become a federation, as the Founding Fathers, from Churchill, to Schuman, Monnet and Spinelli stated. Removing this proposition without creating an alternative could actually undermine the spirit of the treaty and therefore the negotiators from the EU side should be very careful in accommodating the British government’s requests."

SpringingIntoAction · 05/04/2016 00:16

I am a UK-qualified practising lawyer who is studying for an LLM in EU law whilst working full-time. Who cares?

Your paucity of coherent argument led me believe you were on some sort if vi version course. I used the term 'British' to differentiate domestic UK laws from the 'EU' law you profess to study.

Ah LinkedIn. That explains a lot.

SpringingIntoAction · 05/04/2016 00:31

Oh well, I suppose the big money is in EU law these days.

"The European Union exists because it should become a federation, as the Founding Fathers, from Churchill, to Schuman, Monnet and Spinelli stated. Removing this proposition without creating an alternative could actually undermine the spirit of the treaty and therefore the negotiators from the EU side should be very careful in accommodating the British government’s requests."

Churchill never intended that Britain become part of the European Union. if you read Churchill, as I do, you realise that he set the Houses of Parliament above all other institutions. He warned of 'foreign encroachment'. He wanted a United Stares of Europe - for mainland Europe, but not for the UK Churchill wanted to lock France and Germany into political union so they could never fight another war, but our role was to remain outside that union, "interested but not absorbed by Europe". He maintained athlete "had our own interests" in the Commonwealth and our special relationship with the US.

Having said all that, when the Chios were down and France was on the brink of falling to the Nazis, Churchill offered France full political union with Britain to keep her fighting in the war. It didn't happen and the offer was never extended or repeated which points to the fact that Churchill did not believe that Britain should be part of a peacetime United Stares of Europe.

I think he'd be utterly horrified at how things have turned out.

HelpfulChap · 05/04/2016 05:43

I do find it interesting that the 'Stayers' in any thread are always, without fail, the first to start slinging insults. Usually a sign you have lost the argument.

engineersthumb · 05/04/2016 05:47

It is worth considering the effects of exit on business. Any business that exports product or specific services will always have to comply with EU regulation to place that product of service on the European market. Right now those businesses have a voice in the formation of that regulation and underpinning standards, leave and we don't. Business will then have to apply EU and UK regulation! When trading with other countries outside the EU where mutual recognition agreements exist with the EU, business would then need to apply the national regulations of the target country in addition to the UK regulation. Where is the benefit of leaving?
The effects of leaving the EU on people's freedoms and rights is the loss of a right to appeal against an infringement. Yes, this has been abused but overwhelmingly it's been a positive safety net ensuring that legal rulings follow the law and are not politically motivated. It furthermore makes basic worker rights affordable as a minimum Ser is applied açross the member states. Where is the advantage of being a small island in a big pond?

engineersthumb · 05/04/2016 05:51

Helpful, The "stayers" tend to talk about facts. The leavers just talk about indistinct rumours of red tape and regulation without detail!

HelpfulChap · 05/04/2016 06:17

Facts as they interpret them.

Are you suggesting then that because the stayers are so convinced in their argument it gives them Carte Blanche to insult the leavers? Somewhat patronising.

We saw the exact same thing happen on here at the GE, look how that turned out.

Noone knows for sure what will happen post the increasingly likely Brexit so how the stayers can insist everything they post is fact is incongruous.

engineersthumb · 05/04/2016 06:26

Helpful,
No one is throwing insults around. The fact is I and others have shown specific examples of how EU membership has benefited us from our own experience. The leave supporters have not demonstrated a single salient reason with example! This is typified by random dailymail links and generalisations about red tape.

HelpfulChap · 05/04/2016 06:31

I was called a mouth breathing knuckle dragging Muppet in one of the Brexit threads.

Fairly insulting Grin

HelpfulChap · 05/04/2016 06:34

(OK, I'll give them Muppet)

Wink
engineersthumb · 05/04/2016 07:11

Oo try salon on the knuckles!
Forgive people their occasional insults as it's an imotive issue. But can you actually give a detailed example from your own life of how exit would help you? I've not heard one yet!

Limer · 05/04/2016 07:53

My friend's son is one of the millions of the UK working poor on a zero-hours contract and NMW due to the massive over-supply of cheap labour from E Europe. His meagre earnings have to be topped up by the benefit system at a substantial cost to the taxpayer. I know he would welcome higher wages and a better contract.

It's easy to blame poor working conditions on big business - but they want cheap labour and therefore big profits, no surprise there. I can't believe the Labour party are supporting Remain.

HelpfulChap · 05/04/2016 09:27

Liner. I agree.

The Labour Party - the representatives of the working classes - under the war criminal Blair allowed unrestricted access from Eastern Europe (only one of two countries to do so - the others had a moratorium).

This had the effect of driving down wages and thus increasing the profit margins of big business. Sound like Tory policies by any other name.

HelpfulChap · 05/04/2016 09:28

Sorry - LIMER

Itinerary · 05/04/2016 10:07

But can you actually give a detailed example from your own life of how exit would help you?

That would seem a selfish reason to vote one way or the other.

HelpfulChap · 05/04/2016 10:20

Itinerary

The 'stayers' are making the vote about the individual and their own personal circumstances while the leavers are looking at the bigger picture.

I was always led to believe the left of centre voters were all about social conscience?

Daisyonthegreen · 05/04/2016 15:59

HelpfulChap
Yes I have also noticed the inners are remarkable for citing selfish reasons for In,
they really do not see the bigger picture at all.
It is obvious even to a child that to vote to Leave is the safest wisest choice for this land and especially our future children and we will thrive.

OP posts:
Daisyonthegreen · 05/04/2016 16:12

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/658345/EU-commission-control-asylum-policy-Britain-migrant-crisis
This is no doubt so they can try and send thousands of troublesome people here.....vote leave.

OP posts:
Daisyonthegreen · 05/04/2016 16:19

Here is the Simon Heffer article I said I would try to post.
Most informative.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/01/why-brexit-will-make-britain-richer-from-port-talbot-to-the-squa/

OP posts:
Daisyonthegreen · 05/04/2016 16:23

www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/7051443/They-were-like-a-pack-of-wolves-Woman-who-was-gangraped-by-five-foreign-men-when-she-popped-out-for-a-KFC-speaks-about-her-horrific-ordeal.html
I have never even heard of this case,at least one of these individuals was deported for once!
Asylum seeker too,you couldn't make it up.

OP posts:
Daisyonthegreen · 05/04/2016 17:40

There are masses of facts via links and articles here on this Mums Net "In out shake it all about "Thread if you look to support the very sensible leaving of the EU.
It is lazy critisism,in fact fibbing to say there are no facts cited by people who wish to leave.
There are Business links,Science links ,reporting by various publications etcetera.

OP posts:
Itinerary · 05/04/2016 17:58

fibbing to say there are no facts cited by people who wish to leave.

Yes, you're right there Daisy Smile

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