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Ethical dilemmas

My neighbours' autistic child is making my flat unlivable - can I do reasonably say/do anything?

141 replies

AnerleyAnny · 14/05/2024 15:02

My neighbours in the flat above have a severely autistic child of around 4 years old. They really struggle and, having had an autistic cousin as a child and seen how tough my aunt and uncle found it, I completely sympathise. However, the child's stimming and meltdowns - and the parents' loud, angry responses - are slowly wearing down my physical and mental health: I am sleep-deprived, I've developed a twitch in one eye, I often feel tight-chested and short of breath, and I struggle to focus on my work or even watch TV in the evenings. This child has just as much right to a home as I do, and her behaviour is just her way of coping with the world, so I don't feel any right to be angry at her or to complain to the landlord who owns both of our flats. I don't know if there is realistically anything I can say or do, short of just moving, but that would feel like a huge disappointment (not to mention a stressful upheaval) having only just moved here 6 months ago after a very challenging and expensive flat search. With so few rental properties available, I felt an enormous sense of relief when I secured this place, and I've put in a lot of work to make it a home I can enjoy for several years, but now I am starting to worry about what living here is doing to me.

A bit more detail: most days I am jolted awake by loud screaming some time between 5 and 7am (it seems that the fact of simply being awake causes the child immense distress) and then throughout the rest of the day there are usually a few hours of stimming that takes various forms (banging on the walls or floor, monotonous moaning, or sometimes what you might call animal impersonations like barking, yapping, or growling). Most days this culminates in a meltdown of at least 30 minutes, during which time the child is overwhelmed with distress and will scream, cry, and throw herself around the flat. I've never heard screaming like it, and it sends me into a slight feeling of "fight or flight". My walls and ceiling shake and I tend to struggle to focus on whatever I'm doing, as she's audible over my work calls, TV, music etc even with noise-cancelling headphones on. What makes this worse is that the parents often respond with angry yelling, whether at the child or at each other. (Occasionally, while the father is out at work, the mother will just yell at people on the phone for hours on end - they are just very loud, angry people.) It is clear to me that they are overwhelmed by their child, or they are in denial about the extent of her disability, because I've often heard them trying to "count to 10" to get her to stop screaming. This feels unfair, as if they think she's a neurotypical child just having a tantrum or trying to get her own way, rather than someone whose brain is wired differently and cannot cope with her surroundings. On several occasions during a particularly difficult period, I heard them dragging her around and possibly even hitting her - which I reported to the NSPCC. They promised it would be looked into by Child Services but I'm not sure what's been done, if anything. Things reached their saddest and most distressing point when I recently heard the mother yell at the child "Fine, I'll kill myself and leave you to fend for yourself!" This child may not understand the words, but I'm sure she can in some way sense the feeling behind them; I think this stressful environment directly contributes to her meltdowns.

I wish there were something I could do, but I fear that letting them know just how much I can hear would entrench the shame and intensely private attitude that I believe they already have: they have never opened their curtains in the 6 months I've lived here and they often refuse to open the door to the postman, or even pretend to not be in when he knocks on their door. I worry about the anger-filled environment this child is growing up in, and that any potential conflict I create with the parents will just be taken out on the little girl. Is there anything I can say - to them, to the landlord, to the council - without making this situation even worse? Should I just stop investing emotionally and financially into making this place a home and accept that I need to move? I feel trapped not only by the circumstances but by the feeling of guilt that I am not even entitled to have these complaints in the first place, given the extreme challenges facing this family. I'd be really grateful for any advice, thank you.

OP posts:
BruFord · 15/05/2024 15:23

PersonalityofaVacuum · 15/05/2024 15:19

I'm a landlord-you can leave for any reason you wish OP. The only repercussions are potentially, the same landlord may not rent to you again. What a nightmare, for everyone involved. Sounds as if the child needs to be in residential care.

@PersonalityofaVacuum She’s locked into a 12-month lease that has six months left to run though, so she’d be breaking her lease. What would you advise in this situation?
She doesn’t want to break her lease, it’s the noise that’s the problem.

TokyoSushi · 15/05/2024 15:29

You sound like you're doing really well in difficult circumstances OP and I completely understand your reluctance to do anything that would get your neighbours evicted. I wonder if you could speak to your landlord and explain the situation and see if they would allow you to break the lease, perhaps reminding them that there were a lot of other people waiting for the property when you took it? If you run your own business, does that mean that you're somewhat mobile? Could you widen the radius of your search area a bit? I agree that the best outcome here is that they get help, and you get out!

Delphinium20 · 15/05/2024 17:02

OP, I really think you should talk to your landlord. The situation you describe is unlivable for all involved...it simply can't go on and the cycle the family have found themselves in obviously needs breaking, whether CPS, eviction, soundproofing (though that won't fix the walls shaking) or some combo of behavioral changes via professional help.

Your pushing the landlord to pressure them could begin a process where actual change happens and the little girl gets the intervention she desperately needs.

Delphinium20 · 15/05/2024 17:04

Another thought. Years ago, I lived w/ 2 other friends. One friend became violent and he was forced to leave after we called the police. As a result, we couldn't afford rent. We reached out to landlord who offered us a smaller apartment we could afford. He rented out our larger place, and was happy to do that as he was able to raise the rent some.

Your LL may have another property to move the family to. Something to consider.

Pantaloons99 · 15/05/2024 18:08

I really feel for you. I feel so sorry for the family also, yes even the parents. I imagine they might have been quite different people under different circumstances. But that's not your issue, the noise is.

Thanks to our fabulous government, there will be no support, respite or bugger all. Many will be utterly suicidal in this situation I imagine. Because there is nothing.

So I feel you have very limited options. It's move basically or hope they move.

Sorry if already mentioned OP but is there any scope for sound insulation improvement. May be entirely unrealistic I accept that.

twohotwaterbottles · 15/05/2024 18:43

I work for a council and work with social services on many complex cases such as this. There is no quick or easy fixing this situation OP. It sounds sad and desperate for everyone. Report your concerns to SS. Then cut your losses and move before you become ill. Sending a hug

YetAnotherSpartacus · 15/05/2024 18:49

Report to your landlord. It sounds awful. I’m so sorry.

JLou08 · 15/05/2024 18:56

Call Children's Social Care, you should be able to find the number on your Local Authority's website. The family needs support. Some autistic children can melt down so severley even with support but by the sounds of it this little girls needs are not being handled well. There is at least emotional abuse given what you have overheard and possible physical abuse as you think you heard hitting and dragging.
I get it is very stressful for the parents but with some support they may be able to better manage the girls needs and if not the girl may be best with carers who can meet her needs.

OhcantthInkofaname · 15/05/2024 19:10

EnglishBluebell · 14/05/2024 15:45

Again, the Landlord CANNOT do this! Not without breaking the law

If one tenant causes a unit be uninhabitable by another tenant then, yes the landlord can act. All tenants are allowed enjoyable occupancies. She can't enjoy her apartment because of the extreme sounds and behaviors coming from this child.

Pineapples1234 · 15/05/2024 19:17

apart from the noise issues this flat was basically a unicorn: I wasn't able to find anything else within budget that offers a suitable amount of storage space, a garden, free parking, and a small second bedroom that can be used as an office.

I reckon your LL already knows. Yes you're entitled to a reasonable time in your own home but that doesn't trump the disability discrimination act. As a business the LL must comply with this. LL can't evict the DC due to noises resulting from disability.

As a separate issue it sounds more and more like the DC is being abused. Don't hesitate to phone 999 if you hear it again. Some of the DC's meltdowns could be as a direct result of being abused. Don't say anything to the parents, that'll just make them aware they can be heard and they may move to silent forms of abuse instead, knowing that any noises from the DC will be put down to problems arising from the disability. The call center staff and police will be able to hear what you can hear. If you hear banging etc, you don't actually know yourself what is causing that noise. If the parents tell you its the DC, that doesn't mean they're necessarily telling the truth.

Your main issue, if you really think about it, is that your housing needs outstrip your available budget. There's a reason this flat was within budget and not priced equivalent to other similar flats - the noisy neighbors.

If you're going to stay but your MH is suffering, then see your GP and ask for meds to help you cope with your living situation. Some MH meds are sedating and could help you sleep through the noise or at least get back to sleep again quickly once it stops.

Pineapples1234 · 15/05/2024 19:23

OhcantthInkofaname · 15/05/2024 19:10

If one tenant causes a unit be uninhabitable by another tenant then, yes the landlord can act. All tenants are allowed enjoyable occupancies. She can't enjoy her apartment because of the extreme sounds and behaviors coming from this child.

Noises which the DC can't help making - that's the issue. To expect them to not make that noise is discriminatory. To take action against the family for their DC continuing to make the noise would be discriminatory, which is breaking the law.

BruFord · 15/05/2024 19:45

Pineapples1234 · 15/05/2024 19:23

Noises which the DC can't help making - that's the issue. To expect them to not make that noise is discriminatory. To take action against the family for their DC continuing to make the noise would be discriminatory, which is breaking the law.

Yes, it’s a very difficult situation @Pineapples1234. Longterm, if the LL can’t retain a tenant in the flat below, they may decide to sell up, which could result in the family becoming homeless.

Poodleydoodley · 15/05/2024 20:04

Could the flats be swapped over? If the family had the ground floor and OP had the top floor the noise wouldn’t be so bad for OP.

celticprincess · 15/05/2024 20:24

As the child is so young they might not have a social worker yet. I guess it depends how far the family are into the system and if they’ve so far refused a social worker. Not all families of autistic children are given a social worker. Not sure what the criteria but I’ve an autistic daughter and we don’t have one. She’s 14. I was lucky on that we haven’t had that sort of behaviour long term. She was great as a toddler. As she got older we have had some unwanted behaviour from her and I have spoken to my neighbours on both sides (terraced house, I own they both rent) who swear they never hear us but I am paranoid as I know when my daughter drops a pencil in her bedroom it sounds like a brick when I’m sat in the lounge downstairs. My walls are possibly thicker and more soundproof than my floor/ceiling which is laminate.

I also work in an sen setting which children who are autistic and have extremely challenging behaviour. This type of behaviour is usually when their needs are unmet and the parents screaming and shouting will not be helping. They definitely sound like they need help and support. Not everyone can cope though and I work with several children who have been handed over to residential care by their parents. Parents still see the children but they are looked after in a more appropriate environment by trained staff. I can only imagine that is a devastating decision some people have to make.

Utterknowitall · 15/05/2024 20:57

I haven't rtft and don't know if this has been suggested, but you could actually call the police and ask for a welfare check. Especially at a time when something is actually going on, like parent screaming. I'd be very surprised if they don't send someone, and fairly quickly. This will also open up an intervention by child services as the police will 100% involve them.

Ger1atricMillennial · 15/05/2024 21:14

Ah that is why the flat is a "unicorn" because the LL already knows there are issues with the neighbours.

In the short term it may seem that you have no choice but as the poster said up the thread your needs outstrip your budget putting you in a difficult situation. Now you have reported the behaviour, you might have no option to move, so I would be putting plans together now.

Your safety and your health hugely outweigh anything else in your life. I would suggest you move ASAP and then rethink things.

Pineapples1234 · 15/05/2024 22:49

@celticprincess residential care doesn't mean the parents handing the DC over to the state and relinquishing all parental responsibility for them,. Or that the DC has been removed by social services due to neglect or abuse. It's a way of providing for the DC needs where they're sufficiently disabled that their needs can't be met with them living at home. A bit like old people going into a care home when they reach the point of needing more than X amount of care per day, except the care home in this instance is for autistic DC.

OldPerson · 15/05/2024 23:56

So what are you expecting?

  1. Contact the landlord. He either can or can't get them to move, but if he can't he might need to invest in sound-proofing. Because the second flat will become unrentable.

  2. Is there anything you can do, such as wearing noise-cancelling headphones at certain times?

  3. There is nothing on this earth that would persuade me to continue living in such circumstances. It would grate every nerve. I'd move. I could not bear hearing a distressed child at all hours. And I hate shouting and loud noises.

Whatever problems you've had - they're not over. You're still in a nightmare.

I'm just curious. How did you move in without hearing the child?

But if you're just renting, you can at least easily move out.

It's not your child. It's not your problem.

celticprincess · 16/05/2024 07:38

Pineapples1234 · 15/05/2024 22:49

@celticprincess residential care doesn't mean the parents handing the DC over to the state and relinquishing all parental responsibility for them,. Or that the DC has been removed by social services due to neglect or abuse. It's a way of providing for the DC needs where they're sufficiently disabled that their needs can't be met with them living at home. A bit like old people going into a care home when they reach the point of needing more than X amount of care per day, except the care home in this instance is for autistic DC.

Oh yes, I know that. Apologies if that wasn’t clear from my post.

pollymere · 16/05/2024 11:20

If you hear anything more then call the number for the Out of Hours Safeguarding Team in your area. Or even 999. This is severe child abuse. Whilst some Autistic children have meltdowns because they've been masking all day, the screaming and stimming suggests their meltdowns are being caused by their parents. It's so easy to get frustrated with any child and to keep calm is actually very difficult. It sounds like they're not coping either.

Madmanc · 16/05/2024 11:53

I sympathise with you as I was in a similar situation in my previous house - although nowhere near as bad as your experience.
Our neighbour had a severely autistic son and in the summer he would be in the garden and scream extremely loudly for hours on end, it was unbearable to be outside or inside for that matter when the windows were open.
The parents didn't make any attempt to help the child whatsoever but if the grandparents were looking after him in the garden you could hear them talking to him quietly and reassuring him and lo and behold he didn't scream.
I think the parents of the child in the flat above you need lots of help and support not only for the sake of their child but also for their own sanity (and yours).
Would it be possible for you to have a chat with them and say you can hear they're probably struggling an suggest they seek help?

MumTeacherofMany · 16/05/2024 12:31

Imagine how the Mum feels then...

CountessWindyBottom · 16/05/2024 13:09

@AnerleyAnny What an awful situation. This thread is so terribly sad. Your first priority is the safeguarding issue as the home above yours doesn’t sound like a happy one and there is clearly some abuse taking place so I would prioritise that.

I think you need to speak with your landlord also as it sounds to me that they may be fully aware of the situation given your flat appeared too good to be true when moving in. If you’re loath to moving then you could discuss some soundproofing measures but if I was in this situation, for my own sanity, I would have to move elsewhere.

Please keep us updated as to how you get on with social services/the police.

FaeryRing · 16/05/2024 13:24

MumTeacherofMany · 16/05/2024 12:31

Imagine how the Mum feels then...

I empathise but it is her child which is v different

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 16/05/2024 13:25

Ask to move or the coucil does something else, ie offer the family a house etc and see how it goes. I feel for both side

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