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Ethical dilemmas
Original poster

Would you have intervened? I like to think I would have been brave enough....

96 replies

ettieb · 09/03/2023 17:19

I was on a tube train in London at the weekend and there was a chap who obviously was suffering from severe mental health /addiction issues and was abusing other passengers. He particularly targeted a couple opposite him who were middle aged, he was shouting at them about God and then called the woman vile and ugly and kept shouting at her and asking her why she was wearing a mask. Everyone just pretended everything was fine and ignored him. He then got up and moved over to a young woman who was sitting in the seat next to the door, he was shouting in her face, she got up and started moving away and he went to follow her. She was obviously frightened. A middle aged woman then blocked him from the young woman and asked him why he was shouting at her and could he see she was scared. He then started shouting at the woman who intervened and was telling her to mind her own business , after a bit of shouting she told him to get off the train - to my surprise and I suspect the other passengers he got off the train. I was full of admiration for the woman who had intervened when everyone else was ignoring the situation, she put herself in a potentially dangerous situation on behalf of a stranger. I was at the other end of the carriage but could have moved over to help the young woman.... I really like to think that if no-one else had intervened, that I would have done something but I'm truthfully not sure that I would have been brave enough. I am aware of the term 'the bystander effect' and this was an example of this. Somebody expects someone else to resolve a situation (I'm including myself in this). Would you have intervened?

OP posts:
loopyloutoo · 09/03/2023 17:39

I'd have been scared, being honest. But I really would have wanted to?
You just hear so much about people having weapons on them that I don't think I'd be able to intervene - maybe from afar I would have shouted something but it probably wouldn't have an effect.
And I'm guessing pressing the red button wouldn't be legitimised in this situation?

Meandfour · 09/03/2023 17:42

No I wouldn’t have intervened, as much as I would’ve wanted to. Sadly, I have heard too many stories of people stopping to help who have ended up seriously hurt.

CantFindTheBeat · 09/03/2023 17:44

I would have.

I would have observed for a little while then stepped in.

I am known to stand up for people who need it. In my youth I did it recklessly. I am more measured now but I definitely would.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 09/03/2023 17:46

I work with people who have severe mental health conditions, and while I'm not in any way 'scared' of someone displaying obvious signs, I wouldn't confront them either because you can't really have a rational conversation with someone who is utterly delusional and acting irrationally.

Ted27 · 09/03/2023 17:46

I would have told the other woman to sit next to me or someone else to give her some protection and pressed the emergency button

MoneyInTheBananaStand · 09/03/2023 17:47

I think in these sorts of situations it's best just to talk directly to the person being accosted rather than try and intervene directly with the aggressor - ask them if they're ok etc

Having said that I did once cross a street and shout at a man who was yelling at and grabbing a woman. He was so shocked he didn't know what to do. But I think I was lucky, it could really have gone wrong.

onlyk · 09/03/2023 17:51

Yes I would and have.

the guy was challenging people who were unlikely to challenge back so it’s a bit of a judgement call but my experience has been when challenged they will get off the train or behave themselves. If someone is clearly a threat then contact the driver/transport police who can meet the train at the next station.

UWhatNow · 09/03/2023 17:56

I’m a pretty fearless middle aged woman and I wouldn’t have intervened either. I have seen other women do that and I assumed they were nurses or other professionals that were used to dealing with those situations. You are putting yourself at risk if you directly confront someone who is volatile and agitated. That woman was lucky he got off the train.

CoedenNadoligLanOHyd · 09/03/2023 18:00

If i didn't have the kids with me, then I would intervene. I wouldn't be happy about doing it though.

I have stopped in a street at night and intervened when a man was aggressive with a partially dressed, intoxicated woman.

I was shitting it to be honest, but couldn't keep walking. I walked behind them, on the phone to the police.

Blindedbythenighttimelights · 09/03/2023 18:02

Hmm. I once stopped my car & opened my door, yelling whilst getting out, at a group of lads beating up another lad. High school age. Thankfully they stopped and ran off.
The last time, we were just getting in the car to go home from a woodland park, and we saw a huge group of youngish men who chased, felled and starting kicking the bloke on the ground. It was sickening. DH shouted at them to stop and a few of them stopped and then started coming at us so we had to jump in the car and drive off (DC in car) but we did phone the police. After that incident I can honestly say I would not intervene again.

QuintanaRoo · 09/03/2023 18:02

I don’t think I would have while it remained verbal abuse as I’d have been worried about escalating the situation. If it had got physical then yes I would have.

WiIson · 09/03/2023 18:05

Yes I might have done.

AppleKatie · 09/03/2023 18:06

I’d have wanted to but hard to say if I would have done or not.

I would have text British transport police though (assuming my wifi was working in the stations).

AppleKatie · 09/03/2023 18:07

i do think the grown men in the carriage who did not intervene bare some culpability though- it’s not just down to women to stop men abusing women.

ironhelp · 09/03/2023 18:12

I would of approached the woman and taken her off the tube (if she was happy to do so). Stayed with her and got back on the next one.

Kitcaterpillar · 09/03/2023 18:16

It's interesting you say you'd like to think you would intervene, despite the evidence that you wouldn't?

Fraaahnces · 09/03/2023 18:22

I have had to intervene a few times due to the nature of my work. I have always tried to de-escalate first. It doesn’t always work, of course. One irrationally angry man blamed me for all of the aircraft being grounded (while ignoring the wrath of god storm outside) and was shouting right in my face. I bought him a cup of coffee and a biscuit and sat down next to him with my own and asked him if there was something else that was bothering him because he must know that I had no control over all of the airlines or the weather, and he was disproportionately angry. Turned out he was missing the funeral of his estranged mother due to weather delays, and that was triggering more than simple grief. Luckily he calmed down and we were able to fly him onto his destination. He ended up writing a lovely email to the airline saying that he had been utterly out of line and his behaviour was probably daring someone to make him worse so that he had an excuse not to go and face the rest of his family at the funeral/wake. He said that any other approach to him that day would have been the match to the powderkeg. Just to make it very clear, if he hadn’t calmed down (a hell of a lot) I would have offloaded him as his demeanor was too aggressive to risk subjecting other passengers and staff safety. The way he had been behaving in the airport could have involved an arrest by Federal Police (in Aus) and serious charges. I’m pleased it didn’t come to that.

pastaandpesto · 09/03/2023 18:25

I don't think I'd intervene, if I'm honest. Which I feel a bit crap about.

I do think I would have approached the young woman to check she was OK, if I was able to in the circumstances.

Not sure transport police would occur to me in the heat of them moment.

MrsSkylerWhite · 09/03/2023 18:27

Absolutely would - and did - before we had children. Probably wouldn’t have afterwards because my first responsibility became them.

I applaud people who do. Often that’s all it takes to encourage others to join.

Pepsipepsi · 09/03/2023 18:38

Nope because you can't argue with crazy. The amount of times you hear about people getting punched/stabbed/shot after intervening it's not worth the risk. I like being alive in one piece. I'm shy, hate confrontation so honestly wouldn't see myself raising my voice at a scary, unstable man no matter the situation.

Tbh in that situation I would have assessed the danger levels and if deemed necessary I would leave the tube and get the next one to avoid any of the drama at all.
That man could have easily turned on each passenger in turn if he was that unhinged so I would want to remove myself asap. If things turned violent I would have contacted police. Not sure for verbal abuse the police would care or he'd be long gone by the time police arrived.
I glad he got off, that lady was very brave but I couldn't do it.

Greenfairydust · 09/03/2023 18:40

The way to intervene is to pull the alarm on the train if he was being threatening and scaring people and to let staff deal with it at the next stop and defuse the situation. They can call for support from the British Transport Police if needed.

Hotcuppatea · 09/03/2023 18:44

I've intervened before. Once on the bus and the driver eventually kicked him off. Once on the street when a man was verbally abusing his girlfriend who was pushing a toddler in a pram. I offered to call the police for her and asked her if she wanted ro wait in my house while they arrived.

I know that not everyone feels they can or wants to, but I hope that both instances may encourage other people who witnessed it who might, to step forwards next time.

Beamur · 09/03/2023 18:51

I have rung transport police and sought out the train conductor after an encounter with a very distressed young man waiting for a train. He didn't have a ticket and was very agitated and saying he would attack the conductor if they tried to challenge him. I advised the conductor what had been said and he gave the chap a wide berth, transport police intercepted at the next large station and it was all calmly dealt with.
I have intervened in an assault as well, my friend was randomly attacked by another woman in a nightclub but I saw it coming and blocked her. It was very instinctive.

shouldhavetakenmorenotice · 09/03/2023 18:52

I wouldn't have but I wish I was the kind of person who would.

There was a really tired pregnant girl on my train today (with badge) - she was being completely ignored by at least four seated perfectly healthy looking people. I have decided I didn't say anything because I was at the other end of the carriage and I'd be too embarrassed to shout.

Eightiesgirl · 09/03/2023 18:53

I once confronted a group of about 10 teenage lads who were shouting through the house window of an old lady who lived there. She was just stood in the window watching them and she looked absolutely terrified. I approached them and told them to go away and leave her alone as they were frightening her. They were aged about 13 and I was a 37 year old woman. They immediately turned on me and all chased me down the road. I was terrified and ran to my mums telling them that I was going to call the police. They just shouted abuse at me from my mums driveway. I came to regret intervening as after that they targeted my mums house for months afterwards, banging on the door and egging her doors and windows, thinking that I lived there. In hindsight I wish I'd just phoned the police and not drawn attention to myself. My mum later sold her house to a giant of a man, whose hobby was tractor pulling and messing about with chainsaws. I'd have loved to see their faces when they were next causing trouble and they met the new homeowner!