Would you have intervened? I like to think I would have been brave enough....

[ettieb]

I was on a tube train in London at the weekend and there was a chap who obviously was suffering from severe mental health /addiction issues and was abusing other passengers. He particularly targeted a couple opposite him who were middle aged, he was shouting at them about God and then called the woman vile and ugly and kept shouting at her and asking her why she was wearing a mask. Everyone just pretended everything was fine and ignored him. He then got up and moved over to a young woman who was sitting in the seat next to the door, he was shouting in her face, she got up and started moving away and he went to follow her. She was obviously frightened. A middle aged woman then blocked him from the young woman and asked him why he was shouting at her and could he see she was scared. He then started shouting at the woman who intervened and was telling her to mind her own business , after a bit of shouting she told him to get off the train - to my surprise and I suspect the other passengers he got off the train. I was full of admiration for the woman who had intervened when everyone else was ignoring the situation, she put herself in a potentially dangerous situation on behalf of a stranger. I was at the other end of the carriage but could have moved over to help the young woman.... I really like to think that if no-one else had intervened, that I would have done something but I'm truthfully not sure that I would have been brave enough. I am aware of the term 'the bystander effect' and this was an example of this. Somebody expects someone else to resolve a situation (I'm including myself in this). Would you have intervened?

@WedonttalkaboutMaureen I probably wouldn't, your right

I've done this before on a train with football fans. And as soon as i stepped in? Others stepped in too.

Although. You need to keep your distance and try to keep your bag between them and you. In case they try to stab you

Me too. I think in those thankfully rare scenarios I think 'If not me, who?' and then act accordingly..

Once upon a time I definitely would, as someone else said I have been reckless in the past standing up for others. Not sure now, I think I’d observe and weigh everything up and trust my instincts, but my instincts these days are more self preservation especially having young children. I was subjected to a road rage incident a few years ago, some crazy lady actually got out of her car and was thumping and kicking mine, even threw a milkshake all over my car. I knew why she did it, I slammed my break on, what she didn’t see was a toddler running towards the road in front of me, I wasn’t sure they were going to stop. It was at the next lights she’d gotten out. If that had happened when I was younger I’d have gotten out and absolutely gotten into it with her, but my instincts were my babies (weeks old & toddler) were in the car, there was no way I was getting out.

I definitely wouldn’t walk away, I’d try calling for help or even stick around to make sure the person is safe but how much I’d physically put myself in between the situation I honestly don’t know which is very sad and unfortunately a sign of the times we are living in.

I’ve done it on a crowded bus. I spoke to the young man being racially abused by the lairy drunk, offered him a seat, said what he was being subjected to was unacceptable and he wasn’t alone.

Lairy drunk had another go, and another middle aged woman stood up and echoed what I’d said. Lairy drunk looked back and forth at us (doing our best disapproving mum stares) and mumbled an apology to the young man and moved away.

DH felt ashamed that he’d not said anything but I think being middle aged women helped. Lairy drunk racist didn’t have a bloke squaring up to him, there was no alpha male bullshit going on. Nothing to prove, no one to thump.

Just two rather stout mothers supporting the young man and giving him the “I’m not impressed, now go to your room” look.

I would not have said anything to the perpetrator but I would have asked the young woman if she wanted to sit with me I think. I also would have tried to report to the train staff (is there a button?).

I was brought up by parents who intervened. I saw my dad threatened for his trouble. It was frightening but also it was reassuring as it made me feel like maybe someone would help me if anything happened.

Bystander effect is complicated and we have to be careful but also do we want to live in a world where people ignore our daughters when they are in similar situations?

I might have, but I would have used the softly softly approach. Asking him if he felt ok, did he need some help, would he like to talk quietly, could I get him a coffee?

Shouting at him and ordering off the train may have escalated the situation, and my fear would have been did he have a weapon.

Yes, and I often have. My inner school teacher takes over.

My dad ended up in a fight on a coach once standing up to thugs who were saying grim things to his teen dds. My then 13 year old sister joined in to protect him which so horrified the thugs who backed off. We are a nice middle class family. We got off the coach and just laughed hysterically. It’s never mentioned now!

I’ve said something to someone who was blocking the only free seat with their bag when a pregnant woman, with badge, got on looking for a seat - she looked at the seat but didn’t look comfortable to say anything. The man started shouting and swearing at me but I held my ground.

Would I intervene in your example? I’d like to think so but statistically most of us don’t so why would so be any different?I’ve avoided confrontation when younger due to fear, I’d be more likely to say something now as I care less, though I know I’d avoid it if I was with my DC.

Can you give some examples of good ways to deescalate please @OriGanOver ? I would always want to help but don't want to risk making things worse.

Can you share some good ways to deescalate please @OriGanOver ? I would always want to help but don't want to make things worse.

I’m glad she intervened, I think I would have too, especially for a young person by themselves. I would be afraid but still do it.

I’ve had a situation where I was harassed by a random man on a train including an assault and others around me ignored it.

It might seem seem strange, but the fact no-one intervened was what made it so frightening.

That still plays more on my mind than what actually happened. It was other men who ‘turned a blind eye’.

I would have, but then I’m trained to deal with volatile situations and have to deal with them regularly at work

This is a justification for doing nothing and doing nothing you are complicit.

I’m glad you posted just to get an insight into the nonsense some men tell themselves in these situations as wonder at the lack of humanity, selfishness and cowardice.

I am scared to step in to protect other women and we less able to defend physically from assault and fear being punched, raped etc, but I still have.

This has included confronting a group of men and one women who was distressed on the street in a foreign country.

The only male I’ve seen stand up for anyone was quite physically slight, but the man was scared of him standing up to ‘block’ and verbally intervene, despite being much bigger.

The assailant was prosecuted and went to prison, so it makes a difference. Also do think the effects of trauma in a situation when someone did nothing or people helped, are vastly different.

Yes I would, and I have. How people can just sit there and do nothing is beyond me.

I stepped in when an nasty alkie was really abusing the guard and trolley operator on an East Midlands train. I held him at bay until the BTP took him. It went to court and I took a day off to be a witness. He didn't turn up and the staff I helped ignored me. Would do it again though as you can't moan and then do nothing.

I would seek help and reinforcements via an alarm or official help some how.

You don't know if you are dealing with someone under the influence of drugs or alcohol or substance abuse or severly mentally ill and delusional.

This is not about rational de-escalation of conflict or intervening from bravery. If you are unknowingly faced with a person suffering from delusional psychosis they may think you are the devil and stab you to death or stick you with their drugs needle.

No I wouldn't have intervened. I presume the woman has a mouth, the same as I do.

I wouldn't stand up for someone that isn't standing up for themselves.

If she told him to get fucked and he persisted and she needed back up, I might get involved then.

But there's nothing I could do that she couldn't do herself.

If someone disadvantaged who obviously couldnt help themselves was being picked on, I'd get involved.

Yes I would and have in the past.

I stood by once, never again.

It's so weird with the way middle aged women are treated so badly, they are the people I would go to for help if I was in the sort of situation.