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Ethical dilemmas

Do I tell?

253 replies

StarryCole · 29/05/2012 00:32

I have a moral dilemma. Please bear with me as I really need your strength to do the right thing. Last summer. We were at my PIL's house. Only family there and what I mean by this is my husband's parents and his siblings only. Summer BBQ. I felt it a safe environment. My son, aged 3.5, is very active, likes to run around the house and garden and playing with various members of family. I didn't think he was in any danger. I thought I knew my husband's family well, we had been together 8 years. I thought it was safe.

My husband's 15 year old brother, I will call him Alan, exposed himself to my son, It was an opportunist moment. My son alone in Alan's bedroom for a brief time.
We were all downstairs doing the family thing, it did cross my mind where my son was but I didn't think anything of it. Nor did my husband, whose brother it was. Imagine your son or daughter with your brother or sister, together playing alone in a room for the briefest of moments?.

Later on, my son told me Uncle Alan sat him on his bed. Uncle Alan pulled his trousers and underpants and exposed himself. My son told me this in enough detail and I was utterly shocked. It was enough for me to call the police.

Much emotional turmoil between myself, my husband and his parents. It was I that instigated the involvement with the police. Alan's parents were reluctant and very protective. They still are.

Co-incidentally, Alan was pulled up by the police on an seperate issue, at about the same time. The police was monitoring him because he was cruising websites of a NAPPY fetish nature and participating in 'chats' online. He came to the attention of the police as in one of the chats, Alan mentioned he had a toddler nephew, my son. My son was wearing nappies at the time. Till this day, I do not know the contents of the chats nor the actual sites he was on. I can only guess....

The police let Alan off with the privisio he does therapy. Alan being only 15 at the time, his mental state..the risks and being from a supportive home. The police do not view Alan as dangerous. Alan is back at school and living at home.

Fast forward 1 year to today, and my husband's other brother Roger (brother to Alan as well) and his wife announced they are expecting their first child.

My PIL's had sworn us to secrecy. Although we never promised to keep quiet if another member of the family had a child. It is both I and my husband's moral thinking, Roger and his wife ought to be told, to empower them to protect their child.

My PILs, particularly, my FIL has threatened me that if I said anything, 'a big thing would come between us' i.e., I would be ousted in their eyes. They don't deem Alan as dangerous and they don't want any 'trouble' least all by me, least of all as Alan is 'sitting his exams at the moment'. They are being very threatening and we had a heated and serious disagreement. They are extremely protective of Alan, being young impressionable and probably prone to depression.
Any mention of my son and I get 'he'll not remember in a few years', 'nothing worse happened, he's hardly been affected'.

I believe Roger and his wife ought to know for the right reasons. As a parent first and foremost and for the safety of their child. Roger and his wife are good people, very responsible. I'm sure they would understand and be mature about it, like we have been. Alan is a 'good boy' in every other respect and is taking therapy.

Both myself and my husband are being pressured and threatened by my ILs. I know my PILs will never forgive me in particular - even if I said and did nothing 'being the woman/wife'.

Please, let me know your views. What would you do? And imagine this in your own family. Your son/daughter and brother or sister.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Ratbagcatbag · 08/06/2012 10:27

I know imperial this is really hitting home for me, I'm reading this thread as the OP is deciding what to do and I know from brutal experience that keeping quiet could scar a child for life, and there is nothing I can do to influence other than beg the OP to say something.
Maybe for me this is far to close home, but I can't leave it whilst the OP is being bullied and pressured into saying nothing Sad

ImperialBlether · 08/06/2012 11:11

If I were Roger and found my own parents hadn't told me and didn't want me to know, that would be the end of the relationship with them.

bonnieslilsister · 08/06/2012 23:42

Sorry Starry for saying this but

He came to the attention of the police as in one of the chats, Alan mentioned he had a toddler nephew, my son. My son was wearing nappies at the time. Till this day, I do not know the contents of the chats nor the actual sites he was on. I can only guess....

Can you be sure nothing happened before the incidence you mentioned?

Awingandaprayer · 10/06/2012 10:34

Yes, nappy fetish is not paedophilia but exposing yourself to a child is not amything to do with that fetish - it is child abuse which can and does escalate to even worse abuse.

It doesn't sound like a straightforward nappy fetish to me therefore. I also doubt very much it was nappy fetish websites the police were monitoring and imagine the PIL are not being straight with you on this one. I would not trust anything the MIL reports back from the therapist unless it is 'the therapist says ALan should have no contact with children including your son and new DN'. Otherwise she's lying or the therapist hasn't been told the full story either.

You need to be sure someone has told your SIL and BiL before the baby is born (though after the exams sounds fair). I agree you shouldn't allow direct contact with your children and Alan and only supervised with the PIL who will not be able to keep the children safe due to their attitude.
I have seen children taken into care because their parents were not able/willing to keep them away from an abuser thinking they could somehow 'supervise' 24/7 and that this would mitigate the risk. This is horrible on many levels but is the correct reaction. However, the other very sad fact is that it is so common for families to close ranks and protect an abuser that often there is not enough evidence for the police to make a prosecution or even for social services to give very clear advice always. Sometimes they also assume that other adults will do the right thing in protecting children and close cases inappropriately. This might be why you have not had stronger advice from them in the past.

monkeymoma · 11/06/2012 11:11

sadly I think the OP is taking the PILs word for a lot of things Sad
I do not think they are to be trusted. I would even question supervised contact with THEM as for now the OP DOES NOT know jack about Alans history and what caused him to do this, the PILs may not just be protecting Alan, they may be protecting THEMSELVES too, or another family member - you cannot trust them to tell you the extent of abuse in this family, I doubt it starts and ends with the exposure incident! please please please consider this!

PooPooInMyToes · 11/06/2012 12:08

Im several pages behind but

Both ILs and DH TRULLY believe there is no danger to children since Alan still lives at home with his parents and believes his parents can adequately supervise Alan and any children at their house at all times.

That is clearly bullshit. I was abused on a regular basis in a place full of people. Its easily done.

monkeymoma · 11/06/2012 12:16

I do agree with waiting till the exams are over, then I think the OP should go STRAIGHT to the BIL

DO NOT continue this pointless dialogue with the ILs, they are not telling you the whole truth, they either can't grasp the situation or are actively hiding elements of it. They seem to be getting under your skin and convincing you of things that don't add up so just stop discussing it with them and stop doing "research" based on the shakey questionable info they have given you. You know a fact - that Alan exposed himself, go to the BIL with this fact, leave out the hear say you got from the ILs about adult nappy fetish sites etc, tell them the fact that you know and leave it at that!

veritythebrave · 11/06/2012 12:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

monkeymoma · 11/06/2012 13:02

I have very vivid memories from 18 months onwards, can describe the house we briefly rented when I was 18 months exactly, and there aren't many photos as it was just a temp place so its not pieced together from that, but I know the floorplan and can describe every room, I remember where the cardboard boxes were kept, I remember getting told off for crayoning a wall (and which wall). I remember the colour and layout of the bathroom, I remember sitting out on the back step with my godmother entertaining me while my parents unpacked....

"won't remember"???

catinboots · 11/06/2012 13:13

Dear god.

I can't believe what I'm reading. You HAVE to tell.

pumpkinsweetie · 11/06/2012 13:25

I hope to god that you have told by now op?
Stuff what your dh & pil think, this Alan maybe a direct danger to the new baby so roger & his wife need to know incase there is ever a situation where the baby is left with or near alan.

anychocswilldo · 11/06/2012 13:27

You MUST tell your b/sil about this. My God! This is an innocent child u r talking about, so what if pil cut u out of their life. They have condoned their son's behaviour, why would u want anything to do with them? What if this situation was reversed? What if ur dh and pil decided to keep quiet and this new little one is abused by 'Alan' how would u forgive yourself? Please please do the right thing regardless of what ur pil and dh want.

PooPooInMyToes · 11/06/2012 13:29

Hillsidemansion did you do anything about it?

PooPooInMyToes · 11/06/2012 13:52

Sososohard. Still haven't caught up with whole thread, but can you notify people anonymously? You can't get in trouble if no one can prove it was you!

monkeymoma · 11/06/2012 13:55

I don't think you would ever get in trouble for notifying official services like SS or HV that there is a new baby due to arrive into the situation

Obv you'ld get in trouble for nailing a mug shot to every lamp post and telling everyone who would listen

there are different ways of doing the same thing

O2BNormal · 11/06/2012 13:57

Roger and his DW must be told. It will make no difference (as baby not due until Nov) if you wait until after Alan's exams, but they must know.

I don't think for a minute it's possible for your ILs to "monitor" Alan all the time, just because he lives at home and has no transport. Do none of them work/ever leave the house? Alan will be 16 soon and then 18 while the baby is still very young.

If I had a baby/toddler and DH had a 15-18 yo brother I'd probably be thinking there was an excellent babysitter all lined up and how is Roger to know any different?

If I was Roger's wife I'd also want to know about ILs role in all this to enable me to consider if they're suitable people to have the care of my child, as they seem to think that what Alan did is no big deal and will cause no harm.

PooPooInMyToes · 11/06/2012 14:02

Finally read whole thread!

Op. You seem way too concerned about whether or not your inlaws speak to you again. You gives a flying fuck! Seriously! They are happy to put the children the family at risk, they are scum and your life and your ability to protect your children will be simpler without them in it.

HecateTrivia · 11/06/2012 14:11

To the husband - You know nothing of mumsnet if you think that everyone agrees! That is very very very rarely the case. In fact, so rarely that when it does happen, people on the thread comment on it!

It is extremely unfair to not inform your brother and his wife.

You have this information. you know there is a need to safeguard your child.

Your child is watched, he is not alone, you know that there is something to look out for. You are proposing denying your brother the opportunity to do the same. That is a terrible thing. A truly terrible and unloving thing to do to your brother.

Perhaps 'alan' will do nothing. Maybe. But if he does something, and you know that had you told them, they would have taken steps to ensure that their child was not placed in a situation where that could have happened - you would have done a terrible thing to them,

Your child will never be alone with this person because of what you know. how can you even think of hiding it from someone and preventing them from making an informed decision?

If you hide this information, and if he does do something, and if it comes out that you knew in advance and chose to not share this important information - your brother will hate you.

At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself who matters more? Your parents? 'Alan'? Your other brother and his wife? Or the children?

ComradeJing · 14/06/2012 08:01

How are you, Op?

QuietNinjaCorgi · 14/06/2012 08:33

I hope your dh reads this too. I am fuming with him! He's basically putting Alan's needs above that of his own child. He doesn't deserve to be called a father if he can be so swayed by your pil. If my dh ever ever put someone else before our son i would leave him and/or kill him. He will be putting your son and his unborn nephew in danger.
Stand up for your son and the baby cos it doesn't sound like any other cunt is going to. I am so cross! Why (and this is to dh) would you not do everything in your power to protect your son and a tiny helpless baby? If they are ever abused by this Alan their lives will be ruined. And it would be on your head for going along with your dick parents.
I'm know this is harshly worded but have been in the middle of family abuse issues which have fucked up many lives and if something had been said might have prevented a lot of heartache. Adults in their 60's are still completely screwed up in my family and anyone who fails to protect a child when they could have done is scum. Imo.

StarryCole · 14/06/2012 13:15

I'm posting this mobile phone text message transcript with my FIL that happened yesterday. I'm posting it because it feels carthartic and by writing it down, it will help with my anxiety I have been suffering from of late. Feel free to skip this. I shall be posting a further update once I have had time to put my thoughts together.

I shall add I pulled out of a family wedding anniversary very recently (and told PILs why) because I felt emotionally unstable and tbh, after the constant receipt of abusive phonecalls and threats of being disowned, I also told PILs and DH they've angered me enough to want this disclosure out ASAP.

OP posts:
StarryCole · 14/06/2012 13:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pumpkinsweetie · 14/06/2012 13:30

Your fil is a complete dick, tell the bil and sil and be done with it.
I wouldn't care about these texts he has sent you, he is trying to stop you from telling them.
You won't be causing any destruction, you will be preventing it and of course you should tell any other future expectant woman in the family

veritythebrave · 14/06/2012 13:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JustFab · 14/06/2012 13:37

Seems like things like this continue to be brushed under the carpet for generation after generation. Your FIL clearly has never been abused in any way and therefore has no understanding of how it can affect someone.

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