Do I tell?

[StarryCole]

I have a moral dilemma. Please bear with me as I really need your strength to do the right thing. Last summer. We were at my PIL's house. Only family there and what I mean by this is my husband's parents and his siblings only. Summer BBQ. I felt it a safe environment. My son, aged 3.5, is very active, likes to run around the house and garden and playing with various members of family. I didn't think he was in any danger. I thought I knew my husband's family well, we had been together 8 years. I thought it was safe.

My husband's 15 year old brother, I will call him Alan, exposed himself to my son, It was an opportunist moment. My son alone in Alan's bedroom for a brief time.
We were all downstairs doing the family thing, it did cross my mind where my son was but I didn't think anything of it. Nor did my husband, whose brother it was. Imagine your son or daughter with your brother or sister, together playing alone in a room for the briefest of moments?.

Later on, my son told me Uncle Alan sat him on his bed. Uncle Alan pulled his trousers and underpants and exposed himself. My son told me this in enough detail and I was utterly shocked. It was enough for me to call the police.

Much emotional turmoil between myself, my husband and his parents. It was I that instigated the involvement with the police. Alan's parents were reluctant and very protective. They still are.

Co-incidentally, Alan was pulled up by the police on an seperate issue, at about the same time. The police was monitoring him because he was cruising websites of a NAPPY fetish nature and participating in 'chats' online. He came to the attention of the police as in one of the chats, Alan mentioned he had a toddler nephew, my son. My son was wearing nappies at the time. Till this day, I do not know the contents of the chats nor the actual sites he was on. I can only guess....

The police let Alan off with the privisio he does therapy. Alan being only 15 at the time, his mental state..the risks and being from a supportive home. The police do not view Alan as dangerous. Alan is back at school and living at home.

Fast forward 1 year to today, and my husband's other brother Roger (brother to Alan as well) and his wife announced they are expecting their first child.

My PIL's had sworn us to secrecy. Although we never promised to keep quiet if another member of the family had a child. It is both I and my husband's moral thinking, Roger and his wife ought to be told, to empower them to protect their child.

My PILs, particularly, my FIL has threatened me that if I said anything, 'a big thing would come between us' i.e., I would be ousted in their eyes. They don't deem Alan as dangerous and they don't want any 'trouble' least all by me, least of all as Alan is 'sitting his exams at the moment'. They are being very threatening and we had a heated and serious disagreement. They are extremely protective of Alan, being young impressionable and probably prone to depression.
Any mention of my son and I get 'he'll not remember in a few years', 'nothing worse happened, he's hardly been affected'.

I believe Roger and his wife ought to know for the right reasons. As a parent first and foremost and for the safety of their child. Roger and his wife are good people, very responsible. I'm sure they would understand and be mature about it, like we have been. Alan is a 'good boy' in every other respect and is taking therapy.

Both myself and my husband are being pressured and threatened by my ILs. I know my PILs will never forgive me in particular - even if I said and did nothing 'being the woman/wife'.

Please, let me know your views. What would you do? And imagine this in your own family. Your son/daughter and brother or sister.

Thank you.

[fannybaws]

Please tell them , I have a group of five good female friends, one was abused for years by her grandfather, one by her stepbrother.
In both cases they told adults and not enough was done to protect them from further abuse.
One mother even allowed friends of her daughters to go for sleepovers at the abusers home to "help" protect her child. Incredible.
We as the adults have a clear responsibility first to the most vulnerable.

[EldritchCleavage]

From a legal point of view, they can (and apparently should) keep this secret

There is no legal requirement to keep such a thing secret. While young offenders are not generally named, you could not be successfully sued for disclosing it to your BIL and SIL.

[StarryCole]

Thanks for clarifying that EldritchCleavage as I was worried about that point as well. This boy is not being charged or in courts so I can speak out.

I truly believe he has a right to a normal life and not be criminalised, he is a young boy after all. But equally, we need to empower people that care for children by giving them the knowledge to make the right safety choices for their children. It's not our right not to provide that.

And DH - if we keep talking about Alan being a suicide risk, this needs to be reported appropriately to the authorities to handle but I refuse to be engage in an illogical argument where I value the life of one unborn child over his!

[CheerfulYank]

They need to know.

What if Alan is alone one day and there's an emergency with Roger and his wife and they think, oh Alan can watch the baby? Because they don't know what he's done.

Your future niece or nephew needs to be kept safe.

[Sososohard]

Eldritch and Starry - we have been told we can be arrested for harrasment - for telling the truth. Im not going to go into it on a forum - but that's the way it is.

not that it's going to stop me

[Sososohard]

I've had a think about this - the police would automatically have involved social services - as Alan is a child.

In addition the police, if Alan hasn't been charged and convicted of anything, have no power to order him to have therapy or make not charging him conditional on this.

I would suggest you aren't being told the full story.

[AmberLeaf]

Yes the PILs are in denial at best and at worst they arte covering up for him and enabling him.

But OP I have to say and please do correct me if I'm wrong but why the heck have you allowed 'alan' to play with your DS since that incident?

Your in laws are wrong but you are not much further from wrong if you allow him access to your son after that.

These things happen because people (adults) allow them to. Ince you know what's going on you must DO something to protect your child.

Don't put your son in harms way deliberatly

[AmberLeaf]

And WHY weren't the police involved when he exposed himself to your son?

That could be the tip of the iceberg

[only4tonight]

I wouldn't be telling everyone within a 50 mile radius in this case but Roger is family. Family tend not to have natural defenses up in "safe" places like family homes so he has to be told that this is not a "safe" environment.

[waltermittymissus]

I truly believe he has a right to a normal life and not be criminalised

This might not necessarily be the case. I'm not into sensationalism and over-reacting but he is very nearly an adult and you have no idea what he will become. As other posters have said: paedophilia is a sexual orientation. It can't be cured any more than hetrosexuality or homosexuality.

You KNOW that he is a potential danger. You have a duty to that child to tell his/her parents. Nappy fetishes + newborn? This child is in potentially worse danger than your own ds.

I think your dh is a disgrace tbh. Your PILs are unspeakable, but sadly their story is more common than it should be. As you say OP, if Alan is suicidal then he needs the appropriate help.

Fancy putting his exams before the safety of a baby! The mind boggles.

[Sososohard]

As I said I know there are children living in and visiting the home where a man accused of rape of a child is living.

Those children mother has made that choice for her own children - however she is also making that choice for every visiting child.

If anything happens to a child under her roof - she will be entirely responsible. 100% - she will be as guilty as the perpetrator - because she is colluding in covering up for him.

In addition - and I have done plenty of reading - I have read that some teenage offenders go on to reoffend as older males - with a large time span in the middle - if I can find that reading again - Ill post the link - but I've read so much.

You have a duty of care to your new niece or nephew as well as your own child.

It will be too bloody late afterwards won't it.

[EldritchCleavage]

Eldritch and Starry - we have been told we can be arrested for harrasment - for telling the truth. Im not going to go into it on a forum - but that's the way it is

Well, that may be so in your case, sososohard (and I'd challenge it, I must say-I feel for you becausae it sounds as though you are in an awful situation), but it is not correct as a general proposition. Even if Alan had been charged and there were reporting restrictions in place, making a disclosure to the BIL and SIL for the purposes of safeguarding their child would not attract criminal or civil liability.

If you were in any doubt, OP, you could inform Social Services that Alan is soon to have contact with BIL and SIL's baby and possibly other family children and invite them to make the appropriate disclosures. However, I don't think that's actually necessary.

[Sososohard]

The only reporting restrictions in place are those relating to not releasing the victims name - I can't understand it either.

[AllRiseForHerVaj]

This is ridiculous. Utterly irresponsible not to flag this up with your ILs. How would you feel fi the shoe were on the other foot.

I would phone social services immediately.

[mistlethrush]

Eldritch - that might be a good way of the OP dealing with the situation? Let SS sort it out?

[EldritchCleavage]

Well, I think so, mistlethrush. Not least because SS will have to deal with it in the round, looking to protect Alan (who is still a child) as well as the other grandchildren. It does avoid the sense of taking sides, the accusations of wanting to destroy Alan's life etc.

And I must say, horrid though his actions are, I worry for 'Alan'-this stuff has to have come from sonewhere, he is apparently depressed and withdrawn, and he clearly has odd parents and a family with a certain amount of communication dysfunction. He should have SS help anyway.

I would not assume, either, that the PIL have Alan's best interests as their top priority. They may well be concerned to protect themselves, keep up appearances, anything.

[Holidaymaker]

Their absolute insistence screams one thing to me.

That perhaps Alan has done this before and Roger knows and has been sworn to secrecy as they are trying to get you to.

That would explain their reluctance and avoiding telling Roger at all costs.

Additionally they cannot supervise Alan 24/7.

[mummytime]

Why not tell social services that Roger, Alan's brother is expecting a baby in November, and you don't think he has been told anything about Alan's previous behaviour. Then let them do what they think is necessary. You could even do that anonymously.

But personally I worry that there maybe more unpleasant hidden things to emerge from this family.

[MrsSquirrel]

As we know this is a family who keeps secrets, I agree that there are likely to be more secrets.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the secrets is that Alan himself had been abused

[aliasjoey]

I work for the NHS, although I don't have anything to do with children. We ALL have to attend a course on Safeguarding Children. The is mandatory for all staff, even those who do not have any contact with patients or children.

We were told on the course that we all have a duty towards safeguarding childrent everywhere - including outside of work. Actually, I think they said it was a legal responsibility - not sure. But they weren't talking about work since none of us worked with children. They said it is your responsibility to safeguard vulnerable children.

If I were you I'd wait till after Alans exams (although he and his parents don't have to know what you've done?) and then till your BIL and SIL. Although as someone else pointed out, there may be a whole family secrecy thing going on, there may be more you don't know. Go directly to the SIL.

[AmberLeaf]

I've been thinking about this and some things don't add up, alan is 15 now not sure how old he was at the time of the incidents but as he us legally a child social service would certainly be involved, as someone rightly pointed out its possible alan himself has been abused or exposed to something.

You haven't been told the full picture.

[ComradeJing]

I have seen a number of posts on MN in the short year and half I've been on here about children being abused in the same room as other family members.

I imagine some of those family members were also aware that the abuser was a risk to the child but decided, because the abuser was supervised, that nothing could happen.

You must tell IMO.

As a side point, if I ever found out my PIL and B&SIL knew that a family member was a risk, no matter how small, to my child and didn't tell me then I think I would do everything in my power to destroy their lives. Sorry that sounds really melodramatic but it is unforgivable not to make parents aware of the risk a person could be to their child.

[ComradeJing]

Also, abuse survivors often speak of how the betrayal of other family members knowing someone is a risk and still exposing the abused person to the risk was as much of a betrayal and violation as the abuse.

I haven't been abused, and don't pretend to speak for survivors so couldn't comment but the idea of that - and not telling - chills me.

[monkeymoma]

"You haven't been told the full picture" - I would put money on this! I doubt is is the first red flag from alan, and also I doubt you'll be told WHY Alan is damaged, and by whom - they could be sitting in the room too!

starrycole, you don't have to tell them directly, as has been suggested call your local safeguarding or SS and tell them that Alan is soon to come into contact with another baby - you won't have done anything wrong by anyone, Alan included, by doing this.

As has been mentioned Alan is a child too and he hasn't been protected in this either, alerting SS about the situating HE will be in with the next baby in the family will mean that HE will also be helped to not abuse again

[Sososohard]

Comrade yes, there is a forum for survivors, and there is a thread there called "The Ultimate Betrayal", most of the posts there centre around how family members let the abuse victim down.

What victims need is absolute belief and support from those around them, and the knowledge that by speaking out, they have saved others from the same fate.