Assets but no cash to pay for care - experiences and handhold

[Throwaway380]

Can already think of a billion ways I could have made this easier with hindsight, so please be gentle.

My Mum has got a very complex degenerative neurological disease. Has been cared for at home but my Dad can no longer cope and is in an absolute mess.

We applied for CHC but were deemed ineligible even though every care home I’ve spoken to is astounded at this. We will appeal or reapply but that obviously takes time.

My Mum had about 30k in savings but other than that her one asset is a buy-to-let house she and my Dad co own. Obviously selling this will take a while as need to give notice to current tenants etc.

Was told by the social worker that we could get a Deferred Payment Application on the buy to let, but then told by the council’s finance team they would not do this.

We had a specialist care home place lined up for Thursday but as we don’t now how the proof of financing it they have cancelled this, I’d already arranged for her current drop in carers to stop as of 10am Thursday so currently in a worse position than we were before. Am hoping her current care company can come back.

We have told by multiple nursing homes she is too complex and they can’t meet her needs and her current care company specially train people so if we get a random other company they’re not going to be able to provide that same level of care immediately whatever.

Feel like I’ve utterly messed up and we’re going to have to look at equity release. But equally we will need to sell and my Dad is not going to have that much to live on once the income from the letting goes, and don’t want to go into negative equity on that property and seems to not be advised to do it for short term (whilst we end the tenancy and market the house) in any case.

Have seriously been told by two different people at the council to just call an ambulance or go to A&E if it’s ‘an emergency’. She does not need to be in hospital, and it would really distress her (she’s totally cogent although extremely physically limited).

I honestly can’t believe they can leave people like this, literally nothing on the deferred payment form about it not being suitable for second properties, wasted hours filling it in.

Restarting the search for a nursing home tomorrow but going to face same issues of how complex the needs are. And we’re going to be in a mess with the money in 10 weeks or so anyway, and that’s if we spend her last penny.

Sorry should have said - does anyone have any experience of this or advice?

Have you talked to the AgeUK helpline? They are genuinely helpful.

Couldn't read and run.

Yes, not totally similar, but similar.
Complex dementia in our case, sudden mental collapse. No access to funds.

Don't beat yourself up, most people get caught out and almost everyone assumes they have longer than they actually do to plan these things.

What do your local adult social care team say? And is your Mum unwell or just deteriorating? The council rarely step in until it is an emergency, they simply don't have the capacity these days. But they should be signposting you to other agencies who might help.

The reality is, selling the buy to let property is probably your only solution so you might as well start that process now.

And I would call Age UK, their helpline is usually pretty good. They should be able to talk you through your options. And is the condition a well known one? You could approach one of the charities to see if they can help.

But. There isn't much out there for families in a similar situation with assets, and a loved one who is deteriorating but not ill enough to go into hospital and still has mental capacity.

So sorry you are going through this.

I second calling AgeUk, but sorry if I'm asking the obvious, you say you've been told you cant use a 2nd home - what is they situation with your mum and dads primary residence? Is there a reason you cant use that as deferred payment?

Some care home offer their own deferred payment schemes. This may be worth investigating.

Yes this is what the council have suggested.

Because as far as I’m aware you can’t do the deferred payment on a property that someone lives in? Ie it’s void in terms of it being my Dad’s home.

The adult social care people have just said arrange respite (which we’re trying to do) but we’ll still be on our own if we haven’t somehow released the funds for the buy-to-let. Then they said if it was an emergency just send Mum to hospital.

As well as Age UK, you could contact the Society of Later Life Advisers for someone to help with financial advice.

Also should clarify we are happy to sell the buy to let. But with new tenancy laws it’s at least four months once we’ve given tenant’s notice. And obviously my Mum and Dad will have even less money once that rental income has gone in four months if it hasn’t sold.

Ah OK, I was just thinking about what we did for my mum, but she lived alone. I really hope you get something sorted out OP, trying to navigate basic care is difficult, never mind the complexities your facing.

Sorry to hear of this situation and the CHC decision

You say “My Mum had about 30k in savings” - had or has? If she still has this then that’s the first thing to use, isn’t it?

I don’t see why a deferred charge can’t be put on the rental property.

I don’t have direct experience of this, but having had to look into it myself, it would be a deferred charge on the assets. Is it a case of the system saying no because they hardly ever come across it?

Definitely talk to individual care homes about their arrangements.

It’s amazing how many times you can deal with people who just don’t know the fact that they’re supposed to know. I can’t see why a charge can’t be put on a property. Is that where the block is with the council?

Also something else that’s confusing me, the council might come into it for CHC but for funding a private care home place, their input isn’t relevant is it?

Apologies, things may well have changed since I looked into it for my dad.

if you don’t have to include the council, then don’t. They just complicate things.

I know it's not ideal but in your shoes I would be looking at home reversion on the main residence https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/mortgages/equity-release/ These products are a lot more straightforward now than they used to be and you apply for them with specialist advice. It's an expensive way to get the money you need but will mean that you can do so quickly and your dad can stay in his home without worrying about making payments.

This is correct, the current house your parents live in will be disregarded as it’s your dad’s home. ChatGPT says that the local authority may offer a DPA on a second residence (the buy to let) but it seems to be at their discretion. I’d try to speak to someone senior and also get AgeUK advice. I’m sorry you’re in this position, it sounds really stressful. What I would also say about the DPA is that when the person passes, the LA will pressure you for repayment- we sold my mums house quite quickly but just worth bearing in mind.

Yes we will be using the 30k, however this will cover 10 weeks, possibly less, as Mum is so complex.

The council are saying it’s a new blanket policy not to do the deferred payment on the rental house, this is the crux of the problem. I’m talking to the social worker’s manager tomorrow, but it’s a flat ‘NO’.

The care home we had pre arranged privately (run by a charity so they literally can’t make exceptions due to regulations) cancelled the placement as the funds the social worker has assured me would be fine wouldn’t be available.

I would think twice about equity release, it would mean that your dad would not be able to get a deferred payment if he ever needed to go into a care home

I am hoping to speak to someone tomorrow about this. My Dad needs advice as it was first on my list as for various reasons he will be left with almost no income aside from his state pension once my Mum’s pension is going to her care. He does have a private pension but need to arrange taking it.

You might check if the new blanket policy is because of the difficulty in selling flats at the moment - if your parents rental is a house they might reconsider.

I know, this terrifies me.

Honestly thank you everyone for your input, it’s really appreciated. Honestly feels like something that would happen in America not the UK.

You can’t do deferred payment on the primary home because as your dad’s living it, it is disregarded.

In your situation, my priority would be to get the current care company reinstated as soon as they have the carers available. If your mother has £30k she can continue to pay that way.

And start preparing the rental to sell asap. As your parents co-own the rental property, only your mother’s ‘half’ will be taken for care fees. Your dad will keep 50% of the money received from the sale.

Also as you say equity lease on the primary residence could be an option.

This is great shout, thank you.

Do you have a local unpaid Carers organisation it could be worth speaking with them

Whether sold or not that rental income would be gone as soon as the four months notice is up. Is it that you are worried about bridging the gap between them leaving and getting the money from the sale? It could be possible that selling the property at a lower price while the tenants are still there, and/or selling as a rental with tenants in situ may be an option. Yes you lose because of the lower sales price, but every month it is empty there are bills to pay and no rental income so it’s a loss anyway.

Have you been able to sit with your dad and go through their financials. Seconding (or at this point probably twenty seconding) the Age UK contact option, they’ll have seen this MANY times before and hopefully be able to help.

I’m sorry your family are going through this 💐

Yes should have said I did speak to AgeUK when this all kicked off but as of yesterday honestly thought we were all on track, and fell apart at the last minute. Last time I phoned them it took me 45 minutes to speak to someone so got to find the time to sit down and do it.